罗尔夫·迈尔向英国广播公司(BBC)表示,作为一名白人阿非利卡人,他有权质疑特朗普关于种族灭绝的说法。
Roelf Meyer tells the BBC that being a white Afrikaner gives him legitimacy to challenge Trump's claim of a genocide.
作者:艾奥恩·韦尔斯、梅亚尼·琼斯、埃德·哈伯森。南非新任驻华盛顿大使有个人原因去质疑唐纳德·特朗普关于白人阿非利卡人正遭受种族灭绝的说法——他自己就是一名“天生的阿非利卡人”。
By Ione Wells, Mayeni Jones, Ed Habershon South Africa's new ambassador to Washington has a personal reason to challenge Donald Trump's assertion that there is a genocide against white Afrikaners - he is "a born Afrikaner" himself. "Is he talking about us?", Roelf Meyer remembers thinking, when he first heard President Trump say it.
“他是在说我们吗?”迈尔回忆道,当他第一次听到特朗普总统这样说时,脑海中浮现的就是这个问题。他对美国总统这一说法的回应十分直白。
His response to the US president's claim is blunt. The notion of a mass attack on the white Afrikaner minority in South Africa does not exist, he told the BBC, adding that his identity gave him the legitimacy to say so.
迈尔告诉BBC,南非白人阿非利卡人少数群体遭受大规模攻击的说法并不存在,并补充说,他的身份赋予了他发表这一观点的正当性。
Meyer was one of the chief mediators to end white-minority rule known as apartheid in South Africa in the 1990s. He was appointed ambassador to the US in April, after diplomatic relations between the US and South Africa plummeted.
迈尔是20世纪90年代结束南非白人少数统治(即种族隔离制度)的主要调解人之一。今年四月,在美国与南非外交关系急剧恶化后,他被任命为驻美大使。
In an interview with the BBC, Meyer said the facts about violence in South Africa had been misrepresented and he never got a clear answer about where this "misdirection of information" was coming from.
在接受BBC采访时,迈尔表示,关于南非暴力事件的事实被歪曲了,而他从未得到明确答复,这种“信息误导”究竟源自何处。
Last year, Trump accused South Africa of white genocide in a meeting with President Cyril Ramaphosa at the White House and launched a US refugee pathway for Afrikaners.
去年,特朗普在白宫与西里尔·拉马福萨总统会面时,指责南非存在针对白人的种族灭绝,并为阿非利卡人开辟了美国难民通道。
Since last year, nearly 13,000 refugees were admitted to the United States and all but three were South African.
自去年以来,近13,000名难民获准进入美国,其中除三人外,全部来自南非。
Among them was Lielie, the name she uses publicly, who moved with her family to Texas from South Africa, where they had lived on her stepfather's farm, growing macadamia nuts and bananas.
其中一人是莱利(Lielie),这是她公开使用的名字。她和家人从南非搬到了德克萨斯州,此前他们一直住在继父的农场里,种植夏威夷果和香蕉。
Despite walls around the house, an electric fence, and eight bull terriers, she said she felt "fear the whole time" and that on three occasions she saw people entering her property.
尽管房屋周围有围墙、电子围栏和八只牛头梗犬,她表示自己“始终感到恐惧”,并且有三次看到有人闯入她的财产。
"Nothing was stolen, we weren't harmed, but there are friends of my husband, people that lived around us, they were brutally attacked," she said.
“没有东西被偷,我们也没有受到伤害,但我丈夫的朋友,以及住在我们周围的人,都遭到了残酷的攻击,”她说。
She said since moving to the US under the Trump administration's refugee pathway her life had changed, she felt safer walking around, and "my kids can actually play outside".
她说,自从在特朗普政府的难民通道下移居美国后,她的生活发生了改变,走在街上感觉更安全了,“我的孩子们终于可以在外面玩耍了”。
The Trump administration is planning to admit up to 17,500 additional white Afrikaners as refugees over the next 12 months, according to a notice sent to Congress on Tuesday.
据周二发送给国会的一份通知显示,特朗普政府计划在未来12个月内接纳多达17,500名额外的白人阿非利卡人作为难民。
In a statement to the BBC, a White House spokeswoman said: "President Trump has provided a lifeline for Afrikaners, who are being raped, maimed, killed and driven off their property across South Africa.
白宫发言人在给BBC的声明中说:“特朗普总统为阿非利卡人提供了一条生路,他们在南非遭遇强奸、残害、杀害并被赶出财产。
"While the South African government and many in the media have brushed off the horrific lived experiences of this community, the Trump administration continues to process applications for refugee status because the president has a humanitarian heart." SJ Du Venage, who lives on South Africa's west coast, has been trying to move to the US under the new scheme.
“南非政府和许多媒体无视这个群体可怕的亲身经历,而特朗普政府继续处理难民身份申请,因为总统有一颗人道主义的心。”
"While the South African government and many in the media have brushed off the horrific lived experiences of this community, the Trump administration continues to process applications for refugee status because the president has a humanitarian heart." SJ Du Venage, who lives on South Africa's west coast, has been trying to move to the US under the new scheme.
居住在南非西海岸的SJ Du Venage一直试图在新计划下移居美国。
Du Venage is a council member of the Freedom Front Plus, a right-wing Afrikaner party, and argues that there is a "political drive towards killing white people, and killing the farmers on the farms".
Du Venage是右翼阿非利卡人政党“自由阵线加”的委员会成员,他认为存在“针对白人的政治屠杀驱动,以及针对农场主的农场谋杀”。“这里绝对有一个消灭我们的议程,”他说。
"There's absolutely an agenda to wipe us out here," he says. An Afrikaner lobby group is holding a vigil on Saturday with thousands of white crosses on Washington's National Mall to commemorate what it says are victims of "farm attacks".
一个阿非利卡人游说团体将于周六在华盛顿国家广场举行守夜活动,摆放数千个白色十字架,以纪念其所谓的“农场袭击”受害者。
Claims of genocide against white South Africans have been discredited by every political party in the country, including by those representing Afrikaners.
南非所有政党(包括代表阿非利卡人的政党)都已驳斥了针对白人南非人的种族灭绝指控。
"I'm an Afrikaner from South Africa myself," Ambassador Meyer said, "and I can say that I've never experienced something of that kind." Meyer said he would like to have a conversation with Trump about the reality of the situation, saying that as a "born Afrikaner", he has the "legitimacy" to speak about the subject.
“我自己就是来自南非的阿非利卡人,”梅耶大使说,“我可以表示,我从未经历过那种事情。”梅耶说,他希望能与特朗普就实际情况进行对话,称作为一名“土生土长的阿非利卡人”,他拥有谈论这一主题的“合法性”。
The ambassador helped negotiate an end to apartheid on behalf of the National Party, which was responsible for it, with now-president Cyril Ramaphosa also a key negotiator for the African National Congress party.
这位大使曾代表国民党(该党对种族隔离制度负责)参与谈判,推动结束种族隔离,现任总统西里尔·拉马福萨当时也是非洲人国民大会党的关键谈判代表。
He said the "trust" between the two men was one reason President Ramaphosa appointed him to help mend US-South Africa relations, as well as "the fact he also saw the value of me being an Afrikaner".
他说,两人之间的“信任”是拉马福萨总统任命他协助修复美南关系的原因之一,还有“他也看到了我作为阿非利卡人的价值”。“但我不是来只代表阿非利卡人的,”迈耶说。
"But I'm not here to represent the Afrikaner only," Meyer says. Last week, the Trump administration announced visa restrictions for those South Africans who it said were responsible for "race-based discrimination" against white people. It also warned of further punitive actions if South African leaders did not address the issue.
上周,特朗普政府宣布对据称对白人实施“种族歧视”的南非人实施签证限制。如果南非领导人不解决这一问题,美国还警告将采取进一步惩罚性行动。
Police data shows the majority of victims of crime in South Africa, including on farms, are black. Farm violence, often motivated by robberies, is an issue but represents a smaller number of homicides in the country.
警方数据显示,南非犯罪受害者(包括农场袭击案)大多数是黑人。农场暴力通常由抢劫引发,确实是个问题,但占全国谋杀案的比例较小。
While no politician disputes that crime is a problem in South Africa, many experts say this does not qualify as "persecution".
虽然没有政客否认犯罪是南非的问题,但许多专家表示,这不符合“迫害”的定义。
Larry Bartlett, the former director of the US Refugee Assistance Programme, said it could even be "unlawful" to appropriate a programme defined in law for people who "really have no chance to go home".
美国难民援助计划前主任拉里·巴特利特表示,将法律规定的、专为“确实无法回国”的人设计的计划挪作他用,甚至可能是“非法的”。
He said white people who were unlikely to qualify as refugee in law were taking scarce opportunities meant for those fleeing war or ethnic cleansing.
他说,根据法律不太可能符合难民资格的白人,正在占用本应留给逃离战争或种族清洗者的宝贵名额。该计划在南非的阿非利卡人中也有批评者。
The programme has its critics among Afrikaners in South Africa too.
“为什么单挑白人阿非利卡人说这群人有资格逃往美国?这个国家深受性别暴力之苦。为什么不单挑女性?”约翰内斯堡牧师鲁迪·斯瓦内普尔对BBC表示。
"Why single out the white Afrikaner to say this group qualifies to flee to the US? This country suffers gender-based violence. Why not single out women?" Rudi Swanepoel, a pastor from Johannesburg told the BBC. Swanepoel thinks it is not persecution but a "loss of privilege" that is causing some Afrikaners to feel aggrieved.
斯瓦内普尔认为,导致一些阿非利卡人感到委屈的不是迫害,而是“特权的丧失”。"用蛋糕做比喻,30、40年前南非的白人控制着蛋糕,"他说。"自民主到来以来,显而易见的现实是,我们现在必须开始分享这块蛋糕和那些特权。" 除了"农村安全",特朗普政府还对南非提出了其他担忧,包括要求公司增加非白人就业的目标,以及一项允许国家在特殊情况下无偿征用土地的法律。这些措施旨在纠正历史上的种族不平等。
"To use the metaphor of a cake, 30, 40 years ago the white people of South Africa controlled the cake," he says. "Since democracy came, the obvious reality was we had to now start sharing that cake and those privileges." Alongside "rural safety", the Trump administration has raised other concerns about South Africa, including targets for companies to increase non-white employment and a law allowing the state, in exceptional circumstances, to expropriate land without compensation. These are aimed at redressing historic racial inequality. Meyer wants Trump's executive order against South Africa, which underpins the refugee pathway, revoked.
梅耶希望撤销特朗普针对南非的行政命令,该命令构成了难民途径的基础。
He said South Africa had never prevented people from leaving and had addressed all the US concerns, stressing that the land expropriation law is awaiting a court judgement.
他说,南非从未阻止人们离开,并已回应了美方所有关切,强调土地征用法正在等待法院判决。"南非在预防犯罪和打击犯罪方面面临挑战,"他说。
He said South Africa had never prevented people from leaving and had addressed all the US concerns, stressing that the land expropriation law is awaiting a court judgement. "South Africa has challenges with the prevention of crime and with the combatting of crime," he said.
但他补充道:"这是一个普遍存在的问题。不仅仅是农村问题,不仅仅是农场袭击。如果你看看整体情况,南非黑人城镇极高的犯罪水平才是最大的担忧,按比例来说,远超其他任何问题。" 他说他将鼓励美国在打击犯罪方面向南非提供资源援助,包括提供装备以缩短反应时间。
But he added: "It's a problem all around. It's not rural. It's not farm attacks only. If you look at the total picture, the huge levels of crime in the black townships of South Africa are the biggest concern, proportionally, far more than anything else." He said he would encourage the US to help South Africa with resources on combatting crime, including by providing equipment to speed up reaction times.
梅耶也向在华盛顿摆放白色十字架抗议"农场袭击"的阿非利卡人传达了一个信息。"如果我们不致力于在国内采取行动,在国外发声对我们没有帮助,"他说。
Meyer also has a message for Afrikaners protesting against "farm attacks" by laying white crosses in Washington. "It doesn't help us to raise a voice outside, if we are not committed to doing something inside the country," he says.