Before I read long-time Democratic strategist Tad Devine’s new book, I rolled my eyes at the prospect of yet another post-mortem on the 2016 election (which was admittedly also the first presidential election in which I was eligible to vote). Not even halfway through his second term, President Trump has wreaked havoc on all the institutions that have sustained the United States, alienated our allies started a pointless and dangerous war and further divided Americans with his lies and dangerous policies.

Meanwhile, a complicit Congress completely controlled by Republicans seems incapable of acting like a responsible check on his assertion of power. Now, with all eyes on the 2026 midterms and the glimmer of accountability that may come from them, why relitigate a primary election that happened almost a decade ago?

Devine, however, isn’t just some political pundit obsessing over the past, and his book isn’t some finger-wagging post-mortem on how the Democrats messed up. Instead, Devine, one of the Democratic Party’s most well-known media strategists and Senator Bernie Sanders’ chief campaign strategist in 2016, breaks down how the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign used superdelegates dirty tricks dark money the press to thwart Sanders’ 2016 presidential run.

In other words, to paraphrase the title, “Bernie got screwed.”To my surprise, I came away from the book more inspired than embittered or disheartened. Devine offers plenty of insightful lessons about how the Democrats can win elections if its establishment could only wean itself off dark money, push for campaign finance reform, and coalesce around younger Democratic Socialists without compromising the party’s values–assuming that it can come to some agreement about what those values are.

“This book isn’t about sour grapes, it’s really about what that election can mean for our future,” Devine says. “If we learned something from the 2016 campaign, I’ll be very happy about that.”Spoiler alert: Devine may even hazard a guess or two on 2028 hopefuls during our interview. We spoke by Zoom when he was at his home on Block Island, Rhode Island. Our conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity. What are the two major ways that you think the Democrats screwed Bernie in 2016?

One way was the design of the nominating process itself. It’s a system designed to keep outsiders out and give a tremendous advantage to insiders. All of that screwed Bernie in an established way. But that’s not really how he got screwed. The real thing that was unfair was the overall takeover of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) by the Clinton campaign. The Clinton campaign ran the DNC. We know that because of millions of WikiLeaks pages revealed memos about the way money was being moved around inside the DNC.

The tactics that the Clintons employed, like when and how many [Democratic primary] debates would be held, and using outside Super PACs highly funded by dark money, were all part of this underhanded campaign against Bernie. So how did they screw Bernie? There was a system in place that was engineered to keep someone like him out, and I accept the reality of that. But Clinton’s control of the DNC dark money super PACS the way the press covered the race–all of those things that they did, which they should not have done, screwed Bernie.

“Clinton’s control of the DNC, dark money super PACS, the way the press covered the race–all of those things that they did, which they should not have done, screwed Bernie.”You unpack this in the book, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask: Should the Democratic establishment have felt allegiance towards Bernie considering the fact that he wasn’t even a member of the Democratic Party?

I think they should have. Number one, he caucused for them in Congress, in both the House and the Senate. This is a guy who has demonstrated his fidelity to the Democratic Party. I think they owed him. First of all, he ran as a Democrat. The fact that he didn’t [run as an Independent] should’ve been enough for the Democratic establishment to say, ‘We’ll have a fair process. We’re not going to screw him.”But they did.

When I started writing the book, I didn’t really think of it in those terms. I rejected the title initially because I thought it sounded too much like Trump’s rhetoric. But as I started doing my own research and started writing, I looked back and realized, ‘They really screw Bernie!’I have no doubt that it was an unfair process. The Democratic National Committee needs to be an independent body. That didn’t happen in 2016. Clinton controlled it from the very beginning.

The DNC’s very controversial post-mortem report on the 2024 presidential election came out in May of this year. What does the report say about the state of the DNC and the Democratic Party apparatus today?

I think the autopsy report was a joke. It was not a serious look back at what happened in 2024. It was a political agenda item. I don’t think the party has learned many lessons in its recent past. That’s why our numbers continue to dwindle in terms of party registration throughout the country. More and more people are moving to being independents because they can’t find a home in either of the parties, and we have to really think about how we’re going to design a system that recognizes the problems in this country.

Why is the country in so much trouble today? It’s easy and convenient to say it’s because Trump is president. But the real reason we’re in trouble is because we have a campaign finance system that is utterly corrupt. People anonymously contribute millions, hundreds of millions, and now even billions of dollars to control the outcome of elections. Why?

Because of [the Supreme Court’s decision in] . They have created a corrupt campaign finance system that holds in place an economy that is rigged. The Democratic Party has to begin to understand that we need to move away from dark money.

Until we fix that problem, we cannot fix this country. What is the role of the DNC anymore? Is it something that can be revived, or is it even worth reviving?

Yes, I think the DNC can have an important role in the process. It can be a fair arbiter of the nominating process. But, in the meantime, I think we should not try to have a dark money race with them. We should swear dark money off, recognize it for what it is, which is a hostile takeover of our government, and begin to work for campaign finance reform. We need to elevate campaign finance reform to the level of jobs and healthcare.

In terms of the issue spectrum, we need to make people understand that the economic issues in our country can only be solved if we change the advantage given to powerful interests. So yeah, the DNC can play an important role still if it chooses to evolve. Absolutely, I think it can.

“We have to run outside candidates who have no allegiance or history to the Democratic Party to win. “Are you hopeful that the DNC evolve?

I’m hopeful. Given the situation we’re in right now in America with Trump, our horizon cannot exceed the next election. We have to focus all our energy and attention on trying to win. I believe we’re on a path to a massive victory in November. I look at the polling and begin to see the generic advantage that Democrats are starting to enjoy, in places like Nebraska, or Kansas, or Montana–these are really looking like places where we can compete in elections. I think the only way we’re going to get control of this government back is to have a massive victory.

Now, that victory will be tempered by the reality of reapportionment. But if we can succeed in this election and take control of the House and the Senate–and I believe that’s possible—we can get enough elbow room so that we can really try to hold Trump accountable.

How much do you think Bernie’s 2016 campaign, and Bernie himself as a Democratic Socialist, is responsible for the wave of current Democratic Socialist candidates that we’re seeing in the midterms?

I think Bernie is principally responsible for this. We have all these people who were deeply affected by Bernie’s 2016 campaign. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez was a waitress, and then she goes out, and she runs for office and gets elected to Congress. I’m not a democratic socialist myself, but I understand the appeal of their platform. If we have a core economic issue-centered agenda, if we talk about jobs and wages, if we talk about healthcare and expanding coverage and making it affordable, if we talk about housing and education and affording Social Security for the next generation—if we become the party that does that, we will be the majority party in America for a generation. And I think Bernie put this on the table for the first time.

You emphasize the importance of the outsider in the 2016 race, and that you believe Bernie would have been a formidable candidate against Trump in the general election. What does a post-Trump election look like now between establishment vs. outsider?

I think we have to wait and see the results of these elections. I believe it could look very good, and [not] just for outsiders. We have to run outside candidates who have no allegiance or history to the Democratic Party to win. What we have to do is find a way to empower voters to let them make those choices. And if the voters decide to elect someone who is very progressive and calls themself a Democratic Socialist, I think we have to accept that as Democrats.

There is room for these people in our coalition, and that’s really the way we need to start thinking about politics. If the DNC asked me to come in and speak to them today—although, they’d probably start booing me after seeing the title of my book—I would say, ‘We need to build a coalition for this election, and part of that coalition includes the Democratic Socialists of America. We need to be with them.’People are sick of politics. Here’s what they want: They want people who are responsive to them, who get things done on their behalf, and who focus on the issues that are most important in their lives. What do you feel like it will take to beat Republicans in 2026 and in 2028?

We need to focus on 2026. It’s going to take resources to compete with Republicans. We’re not going to be able to outspend them because they’ve got enormous resources. But we need enough resources to compete, and we need candidates who are authentic, who connect with voters, and who are willing to share their values, beliefs, and backgrounds with voters.

I’m going to ask you to speculate here, and I promise I won’t hold you to it. Who do you think looks particularly strong going into 2028?

Given the way our politics are working now, I believe the nominee of the Democratic Party could be someone we don’t know. That’s just the nature of politics. I think if AOC were running for a Senate seat right now and she got elected, I would advise her to run for president. But the fact that she’s not, I would not advise her to run for president from a House seat. But who knows? Maybe I’m wrong. I think there are a lot of candidates. There’s Jon Ossoff who is really proving himself.

There’s Andy Beshear the Governor of Kentucky. With Beshear, the thing I’m most impressed by is not that he’s won two races. What I’m most impressed by is a guy who has spoken out so strongly on trans issues got elected governor in the State of Kentucky twice. Obviously, he found a way to talk about this issue. If Sherrod Brown wins, although he’s a little older, he’d also be a very strong candidate to put on a ticket as vice president. What do you hope readers take away from your book?

I hope that if people read the book, they see a lot of hope in it. Bernie got screwed, but what the book is really about is what he did, how he did it, what it means for our times, and most importantly, what it can mean for our future. I didn’t want to write a book about the past. I wanted to write a book where the past can be a prologue of what we do. If we learned something from the 2016 campaign, I’ll be very happy about that.