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卫报

被宰:为什么美国人正在被敲竹杠——以及该如何应对Gouged: why Americans are being ripped off – and what to do about it

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“跟我念:这不是我的错,这不是我的错,这不是我的错。”这是经济社会学家、进步派华盛顿智库“地基协作组织”负责人林赛·欧文斯在新书《被宰:公平价格的终结——及其对你钱包的意义》中,传递给沮丧的美国购物者的信息。

epeat after me: it’s not my fault, it’s not my fault, it’s not my fault.” That’s the message to frustrated US shoppers in Gouged: The End of a Fair Price – and What That Means for Your Wallet by Lindsay Owens, economic sociologist and head of the Groundwork Collaborative, a progressive Washington thinktank.

消费者的愤怒正在升温,这不足为奇——欧文斯告诉《卫报》,我们都正经历着“宰客行为的重塑”,这种体验正在动摇美国人对经济的信任。她认为,只有消费者起义和一系列严厉的新规则才能解决这个问题。

Consumer rage is rising and no wonder – we are all living through the “reinvention of the rip-off”, Owens told the Guardian, an experience that is undermining Americans’ trust in the economy. Nothing short of a consumer uprising and a slate of tough new rules is going to fix the problem, she believes.

书的结尾列出了一份“购物者权利法案”,阐述了地方和联邦政府如何制定规则来解决问题:它敦促禁止公司使用共享软件协调价格,并要求AI“购物助手”以消费者的最佳利益行事,而不是引导他们购买高价商品,等等。

The book concludes with a “shoppers’ bill of rights” that lays out how local and federal governments could write rules to fix the problem: ban companies from using shared software to coordinate prices, it urges, and require AI ‘shopping assistants’ to act in consumers’ best interest, not steer them to higher-price items, among other moves.

欧文斯说:“生活成本危机是在这个国家建立复兴消费者运动选民基础的正确时机。”以下访谈整理自多次对话,并为清晰起见进行了编辑和压缩。你为什么写《被宰》?

“A cost of living crisis is the right time to build the constituency for a revived consumer movement in this country,” Owens says.

就在美国于2021年开始经历通胀上升和生活成本高涨的时候,我开始意识到,除了高价格之外,还有其他事情在发生。公司谈论定价的方式开始发生变化。

The following interview was compiled from several conversations and edited and condensed for clarity. Why did you write Gouged?

它们的成本在上升,但并不太担心。它们计划将所有不断上涨的成本转嫁给我们,而且对锦上添花、追求更高利润显得相当乐观。在一个具有竞争性定价的经济体中,这不应该发生,对吧?

Right around the time that America started experiencing rising inflation and cost of living in 2021, I started to realize that there was something else going on besides just high prices. The way companies were talking about pricing was starting to shift.

我开始看到了一些蛛丝马迹:“哦,这些公司之所以看涨,是因为他们对此早有计划,对吧?”他们有一些计划部署的新技术和新工艺,有一些新的合作伙伴关系,他们一直在收购人工智能定价公司……他们已经为这一刻做好了准备。企业董事会内部究竟发生了什么变化?

Their costs were going up but they weren’t too worried about it. They were planning to pass all of their rising costs along to us, and they were pretty bullish about gilding the lily and going for more. In an economy with competitive pricing, that shouldn’t happen, right?

削减成本已经到了伤筋动骨的地步。我曾在学术界和参议院工作,研究过以削减成本为核心的残酷的美国资本主义形式:打击工会、压低工资、通过《北美自由贸易协定》、外包劳动力,并请来四大审计事务所的会计师询问:“我们该如何限制监管成本?”低价正是那种资本主义的一部分。

I started to see a little bit of a breadcrumb trail: “Oh, these companies are bullish because they have a plan for this, right?” They have some new techniques and technologies they’re planning to deploy, they have some new partnerships, they’ve been buying up AI pricing companies … they were ready for this moment. What actually changed inside corporate boardrooms?

但现在,重心已经转向了账簿的收入端,其中包括更擅长提价。当竞争减少时,这更容易做到,但这也是新技术带来的结果。

Cost-cutting hit bone. I cut my teeth in academia and the Senate studying the ruthless form of American capitalism that’s centered around it: bust unions and keep wages down, pass Nafta and outsource labor, bring in the bean counters from the big four accounting firms and ask: “How do we limit our regulatory costs?” Low prices were part of that part of capitalism.

那些普通消费者所不知道的“价格欺诈”数据挖掘公司,如 EverSight、Kronos 和 Plexure,在其中扮演了什么角色?它们对美国消费者面临的“价格欺诈”问题有多重要?

But there’s been a shift toward the revenue side of the ledger that includes getting better on price hiking. That’s easier to do when there’s less competition, but it’s also the result of new technologies.

非常重要。它们的档案中包含了数以千计关于消费者的数据点和推论,包括年龄、收入、健康状况、宗教信仰,甚至是党派倾向。

Gouged details data mining companies unknown to the average consumer, like EverSight, Kronos, Plexure. How important have they been to the “gouging” problem US consumers are facing?

几乎没有人能逃脱数据经纪人的掌控。一家数据经纪人声称拥有约 95% 成年人的数据档案。

Gouged details data mining companies unknown to the average consumer, like EverSight, Kronos, Plexure. How important have they been to the “gouging” problem US consumers are facing?

掌握了这些个人数据宝库后,零售商们越来越依赖外部顾问和人工智能初创公司,这些公司专门研究“定价决策背后的艺术与科学”。他们对消费者进行实验,甚至根据每位消费者的痛点来制定个性化价格。

Hugely important. Their dossiers contain thousands of data points and inferences about consumers, including their age, income, health, religion, and even partisan affiliation. Virtually no one evades data brokers’ grasp. One data broker claims to have data profiles on roughly 95% of adults.

在这样一个既要对工人公平,又要对消费者公平的经济体系中,这些公司应该存在吗?

With these troves of personal data in hand, retailers increasingly rely on outside consultants and AI startups who specialize in the “art and science behind pricing decisions”. They run experiments on consumers – and even personalize prices to each consumer’s pain point.

利润最大化本身并无问题。在竞争激烈的市场中,企业必须在价格和质量上展开竞争,才能赢得消费者,从而带来更好的产品和更优惠的交易。然而,随着竞争逐渐消失、法律难以跟上步伐,新技术以及企业牟利方面最新且更加肆无忌惮的手段,正在侵蚀购物者与零售商之间的基本社会契约。

With these troves of personal data in hand, retailers increasingly rely on outside consultants and AI startups who specialize in the “art and science behind pricing decisions”. They run experiments on consumers – and even personalize prices to each consumer’s pain point. Should these companies exist in an economy that’s also fair to workers and consumers?

如果国会通过充分有效的隐私保护法律,那些唯一目的就是攫取消费者数据的公司或许就会不复存在。企业不能仅仅因为没有坑害顾客就受到表扬;监管机构应当强制要求它们不得坑害顾客。

Profit maximization is not intrinsically problematic. In a competitive marketplace, companies would have to compete on price and quality in order to win over consumers, resulting in better products and better deals. However, as competition disappears and the law struggles to keep pace, new technologies and newer, more brazen methods of corporate profiteering erode the basic social contract between shoppers and retailers.

这本书中有许多发人深省的历史,比如加州一只已经连续燃烧了120年的灯泡,以及制造商如何联手确保此后再也不会有灯泡使用那么长时间。然而,我们仍会对“故意让产品过时”感到惊讶。难道现代美国消费者一直都太天真吗?

Companies whose sole purpose is to harvest consumer data would probably cease to exist if Congress had passed adequate privacy protections. Companies should not get a gold star for refusing to gouge customers; they should be required not to.

我认为我们都知道这件事正在发生,也知道有些东西已经改变,但我们没有充分意识到其中的系统性,以及它有多么明确的目的性。

There’s a lot of telling history in this book, like the lightbulb that has been burning in California for 120 years and how manufacturers banded together to make sure they never lasted that long again. Yet we’re still surprised by “planned obsolescence”. Have modern US consumers just been too naive?

无论是把Skippy花生酱的罐子做成凹形、降低产品质量、让你无法使用已经购买的东西,还是迫使你为零件和维修支付天价——所有这一切都已深深融入如今企业的经营方式之中。

I think we all have a sense that this is going on and something has shifted, but we don’t fully appreciate how systematic and how purposeful this is.

我不认为美国人天真。但每隔十年或二十年,我们都需要讨论一次:作为消费者和购物者,我们理应享有怎样的权益。是时候更新规则了。美国消费者目前的状况如何?

Whether it’s making the jar of Skippy peanut butter concave, degrading product quality, locking you out of something you bought, forcing you to pay top dollar for parts and repair – all of that is really baked into how companies operate these days.

我认为美国消费者已经筋疲力尽。高昂的价格让购物变得充满风险。

Whether it’s making the jar of Skippy peanut butter concave, degrading product quality, locking you out of something you bought, forcing you to pay top dollar for parts and repair – all of that is really baked into how companies operate these days.

美国人将基本生活开支记在信用卡上的规模,以及使用“先买后付”之类服务的人数,都表明他们的生活有多么艰难。

I don’t think Americans are naive. But every 10 or 20 years we need to have a conversation about what we’re owed as consumers and shoppers. It’s time to update the rules.

更雪上加霜的是,美国企业界的定价方式越来越不透明、充满操纵性且波动剧烈。

How are American shoppers doing right now?

这场我们共同经历的“宰客”行为新变种,已经侵蚀了公众对参与经济活动主要方式之一的信任。

I think American shoppers are exhausted. High prices make shopping pretty treacherous.

如今,比价购物几乎变得不可能。想要申请退款,得和聊天机器人缠斗三天;即便你以为自己赢了,也务必记得联系银行,确认他们是否真的完成了退款操作。在当前通胀和成本上升的周期中,我们处于什么位置?

The amount of basics Americans are putting on credit cards, the amount of Americans who are using things like “buy now, pay later” shows how difficult it is. Adding insult to injury is the increasingly opaque manipulative and volatile way that corporate America does pricing. This reinvention of the rip-off that we’re all living through has undermined trust in one of the major ways we participate in the economy.

我认为我们甚至还没走到一半。自2022年以来,我一直在强调这一点。每次我前往国会山,都在大声疾呼,要求拜登政府更加关注物价和生活成本问题。

Comparison shopping is almost impossible now. Trying to get a refund is a three-day battle with a chat bot, and even if you think you won, you’d better remember to check with your bank to make sure they actually follow through.

这是五十年一遇的高通胀时期。我们的文化、经济和政治都发生了根本性的变化,必须对此作出回应。

Where are we in the current inflation and rising cost cycle?

你在美国与以色列对伊朗发动袭击之前写了《被宰》(Gouged),而这些袭击加剧了通胀。

I don’t even think we’re even at the halfway point. This is something I’ve been saying since 2022. Every time I was on the Hill, I was screaming at the Biden administration to focus more on prices and cost of living.

是的。我在书中谈到了特朗普的贸易战及其对物价的影响。伊朗战争的情况类似。大多数美国人都明白,汽油价格如何波及整个经济。

I don’t even think we’re even at the halfway point. This is something I’ve been saying since 2022. Every time I was on the Hill, I was screaming at the Biden administration to focus more on prices and cost of living.

战争的迷雾、危机的迷雾,其力量非常强大。它使得美国人很难分辨,物价上涨中究竟有多少部分确实源于进口成本,又有多少部分是企业在“锦上添花”式地哄抬价格。请系好安全带。你预计企业会利用战争牟利?绝对如此。那你个人的购物情况如何?你和家人是如何应对这种局面的?

This is a once-in-50-year period of high inflation. Something has completely changed in our culture and our economy, in our politics, and you have to be responsive to it. You wrote Gouged before the US and Israel attacks on Iran, which have ramped up inflation. Yes. I do talk in the book about Trump’s trade war, and its impact on prices. The Iran war is similar. Most Americans do understand how gas prices ripple through the whole economy.

我首先要说的是,我并不是电商领域的“积分达人”。和你一样,我也正在被这些公司坑害。

The fog of war, the fog of crisis, is really powerful. It makes it so that Americans have a hard time discerning which piece of the price increase is indeed because of import costs, and which is companies gilding the lily. Buckle up.

大多数美国人都在努力平衡两件事:一是争取买到划算的商品,二是计算自己究竟能花多少时间在不被宰客上。

The fog of war, the fog of crisis, is really powerful. It makes it so that Americans have a hard time discerning which piece of the price increase is indeed because of import costs, and which is companies gilding the lily. Buckle up.

因此,我更新了比价购物的方式。我会查看实体门店、应用程序内的价格,并分别测试登录和未登录状态下的价格。我尽量避免在应用内直接购买。

You expect companies to take advantage of the war? Absolutely. What about your personal shopping? How are you and your family navigating this situation?

我经常进行一些实验:我会打电话给朋友们,询问他们看到的价格情况。我和丈夫会坐在床上,打开笔记本电脑,商量到底谁能买到更便宜的机票。最终,谁买到了更便宜的机票,谁就负责支付机票费用。

The first thing I will say is I am not the “points guy” for e-commerce. I, like you, am being screwed by these companies. Most Americans are balancing trying to get a good deal with figuring out how much time they could possibly spend on not getting ripped off.

读者们经常对我说:“情况永远不会改变”——他们对改革现有制度持悲观态度。

So I updated how I comparison-shop. I look at brick and mortar, on the app, logged in, logged out. I try not to buy in-app.

我确实认为,我们在与这些不公正的机制作斗争时处于劣势,而且我们的任务非常艰巨。这种斗争就像“打地鼠”游戏一样:在一个城市取得了胜利,却在另一个城市发现自己的提案被否决了。

I run experiments. Call your friends and say: “What price are you seeing?” My husband and I sit in bed with our laptops open, figuring out which of us gets the better deal. Whoever gets the better deal buys the plane tickets.

贾里德·波利斯(Jared Polis)否决了有关监控服务定价的立法提案;我们仍在等待纽约州州长凯西·霍丘尔(Kathy Hochul)签署已在纽约州通过的该法案。

One thing I often hear from readers is “nothing is ever going to change” – a sort of pessimism about reforming the system. I do think the deck is stacked against us and we have our work cut out. It feels like whac-a-mole – you get a win in one city, you find out your bill is vetoed in another.

然而,当美国人发现某些公司正与人工智能企业合作,通过各种手段来剥削他们的利益(甚至从他们购物车里的每一件商品中榨取最后一分钱)时,他们会非常愤怒。

Jared Polis vetoed surveillance pricing legislation. We’re still waiting for [New York Governor] Kathy Hochul to sign a bill that passed there.

我认为,人们的这种愤怒情绪,以及围绕这一问题的广泛讨论,正是推动变革的重要动力。美国联邦贸易委员会(Federal Trade Commission)正在处理来自民众的约1000条关于监控服务定价监管的评论。

But when Americans find out that companies are partnering with AI companies to spy on you and figure out how to take your last three pennies for every item in your grocery cart, they get pretty ticked off. I think the optimism I have is the sort of public anger, and, frankly, the groundswell of public conversation around this.

温迪快餐(Wendy’s)在受到舆论压力后不得不公开表示不会在电子菜单板上使用动态定价机制;达美航空(Delta)也在类似的压力下做出了让步;Instacart在Groundwork组织曝光其算法定价实验的两周后也放弃了这一做法。

The Federal Trade Commission is sorting through about 1,000 comments from Americans about surveillance pricing regulation. Wendy’s had to cry “uncle” and say they wouldn’t do surge pricing on their electronic menu board. Delta cried “uncle”, and so did Instacart two weeks after Groundwork exposed their algorithmic pricing experiments.

我认为,所有这些努力,再加上立法机构的行动,都是将那些不公正的机制“重新塞回瓶子里”(即阻止它们继续危害公众利益)的关键。

I think all of that is a really important part about how we stick the genie back in the bottle, combined with legislative activity.

如果民主党人控制了众议院和参议院,他们有很多需要处理的问题,其中包括特朗普政府留下的遗留问题以及国家安全等相关议题。在这些议题中,价格和生活成本问题无疑应该被列为最优先处理的对象。

If Democrats take the House and Senate, there’s a long list of things they are expected to address related to the Trump administration, national security et cetera. Where should this be on the priority list?

自2022年以来,对美国人来说,价格和生活成本一直是最重要的问题。任何与经济相关的问题都必然会成为最受关注的焦点。

The top issue for the American people, and it has been this way since 2022, is prices and the cost of living. Anything that takes on the economy is going to be top of the list.

唯一可能带来转机的因素是对人工智能日益增长的担忧——而美国企业界正在使用的许多最阴险、最邪恶且不透明的定价手段,背后都有人工智能的推波助澜。

The only that could shift could be rising concern about AI – and a lot of the most sinister nefarious and opaque pricing practices that corporate America is using are powered by AI.

我们看到共和党人也对此产生了兴趣。几周前,应密苏里州参议员乔什·霍利(Josh Hawley)的要求,我以多数党证人的身份就此问题在他面前作证,这在我以往的经历中从未有过。

We’re seeing interest from Republicans as well. I testified in front of [Missouri Senator] Josh Hawley on this a couple weeks ago, at his request, as a majority witness, which has never happened to me before. You ask readers to repeat “It’s not your fault” three times before they try to confront this new landscape. Why?

你要求读者在尝试面对这种新局面之前,重复三遍“这不是你的错”。为什么?

From the bottom of my heart, I don’t believe it should be Americans’ job to duck and dodge and beat the machine. The most dystopian version of this world is one in which there’s a “points guy” for everything.

我发自内心地认为,美国民众不应该承担起躲避、周旋并对抗这套机器的责任。这个世界最反乌托邦的一面,就是凡事都需要一个“精明攻略者”来指点。

Outsmarting price-gouging on your own is like trying to solve climate change by yourself.

靠一己之力去智斗价格欺诈,就像试图凭个人力量解决气候变化问题一样。

Gougers are always reinventing themselves, always figuring out newer, more cunning ways to stay one step ahead. And all that effort eats up one of your most precious resources: time. Companies know this – and they are banking on it.

欺诈者总是在不断自我革新,不断寻找更新、更狡猾的方法来领先一步。而所有这些应对努力都会消耗你最宝贵的资源之一:时间。企业深知这一点,并正以此为赌注。在短期内,你希望做出哪些改变?

Gougers are always reinventing themselves, always figuring out newer, more cunning ways to stay one step ahead. And all that effort eats up one of your most precious resources: time. Companies know this – and they are banking on it. What are you hoping to change, near term? It’s been a really long time since the consumer laws have been updated. I do think e-commerce and agentic commerce begs a new type of policy regime.

消费者法律已经很久没有更新了。我确实认为,电子商务和代理式商业需要一种全新的政策体系。

It’s been a really long time since the consumer laws have been updated. I do think e-commerce and agentic commerce begs a new type of policy regime.

仅今年一年,全国各州和城市就出现了90项旨在遏制算法定价操纵的立法。在生活成本危机时期,正是为这个国家重振消费者运动建立支持群体的最佳时机。

This year alone, there are 90 pieces of legislation throughout the country, in states and cities to try to curtail algorithmic price fixing. A cost of living crisis is the right time to build the constituency for a revived consumer movement in this country.