斯蒂芬妮·菲利普斯（Stephanie Phillips）在伍尔弗汉普顿长大，她说自己起初和朋友们一样，非常喜欢流行音乐排行榜上的歌曲。
Growing up in Wolverhampton, Stephanie Phillips says she was initially pretty much into the same chart music as her friends.
但在听TLC、阿莉雅（Aaliyah）和天命真女（Destiny's Child）的同时，她也对摇滚、独立音乐和朋克产生了浓厚的兴趣。
But alongside TLC, Aaliyah and Destiny's Child, she developed a passion for rock, indie and punk.
“对于一个性格内向、需要情感宣泄出口的人来说，这些音乐对我意义重大，”她说。然而，她却感到不得不将这份热情隐藏起来。
"It was music that meant a lot to me as someone who was very shy and needed an outlet," she said. Yet she felt compelled to keep that passion hidden.
这位音乐人、记者兼作家告诉BBC：“当时总有一种观念，认为黑人并不真正喜欢另类音乐或朋克。”
"There was always this idea that black people weren't really into alternative music, or punk," the musician, journalist and author told the BBC.
她在新书中写道：“当我刚开始接触另类音乐时，我感觉自己背叛了种族，不得不把对摇滚的热爱当作秘密。”
"When I first got into alternative music I felt like I was betraying my race, and had to keep my love of rock practically secret," she writes in her new book.
“社会对我有一种既定的期待，而对这种音乐流派的狂热被视为不属于黑人的东西。”在《我们曾在这里》（We Were Here）一书中，身为Big Joanie乐队主唱兼吉他手的菲利普斯梳理了黑人艺术家在创造、塑造和变革摇滚乐、朋克及另类音乐中所扮演的角色。
"There was a particular way that I was supposed to move through the world and being super into this genre was seen as something that wasn't for black people." In We Were Here, the Big Joanie singer and guitarist charts the role of black artists in creating, shaping and transforming rock 'n' roll, punk and alternative music.
菲利普斯认为，黑人艺术家从未在这些领域消失，只是经常被遗忘、忽视或蓄意排挤。
Phillips argues black artists never disappeared from the scene but were often forgotten, overlooked or deliberately excluded.
“有一种暗示认为我们并不真正属于那些历史，”她说，“但当你回望过去，会发现那里有如此丰富的内容。”她说，“黑人怪胎”（black weirdo）这个词既概括了她的感受，也概括了他人如何看待她参与朋克圈的行为。
"There was this insinuation that we weren't really part of those histories," she said, "but when you look back, there was so much there." She says the phrase "black weirdo" captures both how she felt and how others viewed her involvement in the punk scene.
斯卡（ska）和2 Tone音乐团体The Selecter的主唱宝琳·布莱克（Pauline Black）对此表示赞同。两人即将在考文垂参加一场“黑人历史月”的活动。
The lead singer of ska and 2 Tone group The Selecter, Pauline Black, agrees. The pair are set to take part in an event together as part of Black History Month, in Coventry.
“虽然我的音乐创作依然源于黑人音乐流派，但在某种程度上，我也是那些‘怪胎’之一，因为我有着民谣背景，而民谣音乐可以说是最‘白人化’的了，”布莱克说。
"Although what I do still comes from the genre of black music, I was one of those weirdos in a way because I come from a folk background, and you can't get much whiter than that," said Black.
“当然，在我成长的过程中，如果你不听摩城唱片（Tamla），不听灵魂乐——我确实听，但我并不想做那样的音乐——那么没人能真正理解你。”
"Certainly when I was growing up if you weren't into Tamla, you weren't into soul - which I am, but didn't particularly want to do music like that - then nobody really understands.
“如果你想成为一名朋克，而你又是一位黑人女性，那是非常困难的。”这本书探讨了包括罗塞塔·撒普修女（Sister Rosetta Tharpe）和吉米·亨德里克斯（Jimi Hendrix）在内的人物，随后又介绍了从重摇滚到诸如“坏大脑”（Bad Brains）和“纯粹地狱”（Pure Hell）等先锋朋克乐队在内的后续流派。
"If you want to be a punk, and are black and a woman it's very difficult." The book explores figures including Sister Rosetta Tharpe and Jimi Hendrix before moving through later genres, from heavy rock to pioneering punk acts such as Bad Brains and Pure Hell.
“我们一直都知道，黑人对于摇滚乐的诞生至关重要，”菲利普斯说。
"We've always known that black people were essential to the creation of rock and roll," Phillips said.
“他们对于由此衍生出的许多不同流派的创造和延续也同样不可或缺。”菲利普斯表示，撒普修女的吉他演奏风格影响了查克·贝里（Chuck Berry）、埃尔维斯·普雷斯利（Elvis Presley）和小理查德（Little Richard）等艺术家，她在摇滚乐的兴起中起到了“关键”作用。
"They're also essential to the creation and continuation of so many different genres that came off of that." Tharpe, whose guitar work helped shape artists including Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley and Little Richard, was "pivotal" to the emergence of rock'n'roll, Phillips said.
然而，她在1973年去世后几乎被人们遗忘，直到几十年后才被重新发现。
Yet she was largely forgotten after her death in 1973 before being rediscovered decades later.
菲利普斯认为，随着音乐新闻业影响力的扩大，这些历史往往被忽视了。
Phillips argues these histories were often overlooked as music journalism grew more influential.
她指出，《滚石》等出版物帮助定义了摇滚明星的典型形象，它们往往偏爱白人男性艺术家，却忽视了许多开创性的黑人表演者。
Publications such as Rolling Stone helped define the archetypal rock star, she argues, often favouring white male artists while overlooking many groundbreaking black performers.
种族隔离制度也塑造了音乐产业和音乐排行榜，这种情况一直持续到20世纪60年代中期。
Segregation also shaped the music industry and charts until the mid-1960s.
“在当时的美国，肤色界限被打破的威胁令人恐惧，”她说。“这不仅存在于学校或公共场所，也存在于文化领域。”菲利普斯说，像“坏大脑”这样的先锋黑人朋克乐队尽管影响力巨大，却经常被低估。
"The threat of the colour line being breached was terrifying in America," she said. "It wasn't just in schools or public spaces, it was in culture too." Pioneering black punk bands such as Bad Brains were frequently under-recognised despite their influence, Phillips said.
“他们彻底改变了硬核音乐的可能性。他们拥有演奏得更硬、更快的技术能力，”她补充道。
"They completely changed what hardcore could be. They had the technical proficiency to play harder, to play faster," she added.
“人们认为黑人从未参与其中。事实是，我们可能一直都在，问题在于是否得到了妥善的记录。”搬到伦敦后，菲利普斯参与了独立的DIY朋克圈子，她说这个圈子对女性、非二元性别者和跨性别者非常友好。但尽管这座城市具有多样性，参与其中的黑人依然寥寥无几。“这仍然让我感到自己像个局外人，”她说。
"People think black people haven't been there. It's like, well, we probably have been, the question is whether it was documented properly." After moving to London, Phillips became involved in the independent DIY punk scene, which she said was welcoming to women, non-binary and trans people. But despite the city's diversity, there were still only a handful of black people involved. "It still made me feel a bit of an outsider," she said.
作为回应，她共同创立了Big Joanie乐队，并将该乐队描述为一支黑人女性主义朋克乐队。
In response she co-founded Big Joanie, describing the group as a black feminist punk band.
“创建一个让黑人女性能够摆脱所有那些期望、自由存在的空间，这令人兴奋，”她说。
"It was exciting creating a space where black women could exist outside all those expectations," she said.
这本书还探讨了另类音乐领域的黑人艺术家如何面临敌意或扭曲的媒体报道。
The book also examines how black artists within alternative music have faced hostile or distorted media coverage.
她以Skunk Anansie乐队的主唱Skin为例，指出她常常被通过外貌而非音乐来审视。
She points to Skunk Anansie's Skin, who was often portrayed through the lens of her appearance rather than her music.
“他们谈论她的唯一方式，要么是觉得她可怕，要么就是无法将目光从她身上移开，”她解释道。
"The only way they would speak about her is either that they found her scary or they couldn't take their eyes off her," she explained.
“她们被视为局外人，她们的音乐并没有像其他艺术家那样得到充分的推崇。”Bloc Party乐队的主唱Kele Okereke也经历了类似的待遇，包括被一本音乐杂志公开其性取向。
"They were seen as outsiders and their music wasn't really as well championed as other artists." Bloc Party frontman Kele Okereke experienced similar treatment, including being outed by a music magazine.
在为这本书采访他时，菲利普斯表示，很明显这段经历至今仍让他感到痛苦。
Interviewing him for the book, Phillips said it was clear the experience had remained painful.
“在独立音乐界为数不多的黑人男性之一，他的害羞和脆弱常常被解读为敌意，”她说。
"The shyness and vulnerability of one of the few black men in the indie world was often being interpreted as hostility," she said.
布莱克回忆道，1980年一张她与Debbie Harry、X-Ray Spex乐队的Poly Styrene及其他知名女性艺术家合影的著名照片，曾登上《New Music News》杂志 ，并被标注为代表“摇滚乐中的女性”。“我想他们大概也需要在里面放几位黑人女性，”她说。“但有趣的是，他们无法将一位女性放在 上。
Black recalled that a famous 1980 photograph of her alongside Debbie Harry, Poly Styrene of X-Ray Spex and other leading female artists, featured on the cover of New Music News magazine, was billed as representing "the women in rock". "And I suppose they needed a couple of black women in there as well," she said. "But it was interesting they couldn't put one woman on the cover.
“在那个年代，他们的理念是，如果 上出现一张黑人的脸，尤其是非黑人男性的脸，那么杂志的销量就不会太好。”菲利普斯认为，即便在今天，黑人艺术家也常常被遗忘、被忽视或被刻意排除在外。
"In those days their ethos was that if you put a black face on the cover, particularly if it's not a male black face, then you're not really going to sell many copies." Even today, Phillips argues black artists were often forgotten, overlooked or deliberately excluded.
她以Nova Twins为例，称该乐队曾申请银行贷款来录制首张专辑，尽管该专辑获得了 rave 好评，但他们仍然难以找到唱片公司签约。
She cites Nova Twins, who took out a bank loan to record their debut album which received rave reviews but they still struggled to find a label, she said.
她补充说，这个问题对她而言具有个人意义，并回忆了为Big Joanie早期作品争取支持时所面临的挑战。
The issue is personal, she added, recalling the challenges of securing support for Big Joanie's early releases.
“你确实需要更加努力才行；这份工作可能会让人感到精疲力竭。”如今，这位作者居住在伯明翰，她正在参加一系列活动，讨论书中提出的问题，其中包括在沃里克艺术中心与乐队 The Selecter 的主唱进行的对话。
"You do have to work harder. It can be exhausting." Now based in Birmingham, the author is taking part in a series of events discussing the issues raised in the book, including a conversation with The Selecter's lead singer at Warwick Arts Centre.
“我真的很想了解 Stephanie 是如何思考问题的、她的想法是什么，”Black 说。
"I'm really interested to hear what makes Stephanie tick," said Black.
“她应该比我晚一代出生，因此她的成长经历会有所不同；不过我认为在她组建乐队 Big Joanie 时，音乐行业并没有发生太大的变化。”“我认为她在音乐创作和写作方面都做得非常出色。”
"She would have grown up a generation behind me, so her experience would have been different, but I don't think the industry had changed significantly by the time she formed Big Joanie. "I think she's done an extraordinary job, both with her band and with the book.
Stephanie Phillips 的著作《Here: A History of Black People and Alternative Music》由 Faber 出版社出版。她将于 10 月 15 日在沃里克艺术中心与 Pauline Black 进行对话，并将于 11 月 18 日参加在伯明翰举行的 Supersonic 音乐节。
"So it's 'up the weirdos', is what I say." re Here: A History of Black People and Alternative Music by Stephanie Phillips is published by Faber She is in conversation with Pauline Black at Warwick Arts Centre on 15 October appearing at Supersonic Festival in Birmingham on 18 November.
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