布基纳法索周三迎来军事强人易卜拉欣·特拉奥雷上尉通过政变掌权四周年。特拉奥雷将自己比作反殖民偶像托马斯·桑卡拉，承诺推行“进步且大众的”革命。法国国际广播电台采访了流亡海外的出版总监伊努萨·韦德拉奥果，谈及该国不断恶化的人权记录。
Burkina Faso on Wednesday marks four years since military strongman Captain Ibrahim Traoré took over in a coup. Comparing himself to anti-colonial icon Thomas Sankara, Traoré promised a "progressive and popular" revolution. RFI spoke to Inoussa Ouédraogo, a publishing director who now lives in exile about the country's fading human rights record.
2022年9月30日，易卜拉欣·特拉奥雷上尉在瓦加杜古发动政变夺取政权，承诺恢复安全——当时布基纳法索正疲于应对圣战叛乱，大片国土已脱离国家控制。
On 30 September 2022, Captain Ibrahim Traoré seized power in a coup in Ouagadougou, promising to restore security as Burkina Faso struggled with a jihadist insurgency that had left large parts of the country beyond state control.
“我们将让布基纳法索复兴的火炬继续燃烧，”特拉奥雷曾如此表示，向1983年上台的桑卡拉致敬，称其为“国家英雄”和“指南针”。
"We'll keep the torch of Burkina's renaissance burning," Traoré has said, paying tribute to Sankara - who took over in 1983 – calling him the "nation's hero" and "compass".
两人都是以戴红色贝雷帽的年轻上尉身份夺取政权，都推崇泛非主义以及国家、经济和文化自主，并压制异见。
Both men seized power as red beret-wearing young captains and promoted Pan-Africanism and national, economic and cultural autonomy and silenced dissent.
桑卡拉曾倡导一场“民主”革命，而特拉奥雷则公开宣称该国不是民主国家。
While Sankara had championed a "democratic" revolution, Traoré openly asserts that the country is not a democracy.
记者、法官和公民社会成员经常遭到绑架，有时被送往前线，以充实反圣战力量的兵员。
Journalists, magistrates and civil society members are regularly abducted and at times sent off to the front lines to boost the ranks of the anti-jihadist forces.
现居海外的伊努萨·韦德拉奥果曾是这家周报的出版总监，并主持布基纳法索私营报刊出版商协会。
Inoussa Ouédraogo, who now lives in exile, was the publishing director of the weekly and presided over the Society of Private Press Publishers of Burkina Faso.
他说，虽然特拉奥雷的新经济项目被视为积极进展，但这些项目转移了人们对不断恶化的人权状况的注意力。
He says that while Traoré's new economic projects are seen as a positive development, they act as a distraction to the diminishing human rights.
法国国际广播电台：当特拉奥雷上尉宣称“民主不适合我们布基纳法索人民”时，他是在挑衅，还是当真如此？
RFI: When Captain Traoré declared, "democracy is not for us Burkinabé people," is he being provocative, or does he truly mean it?
伊努萨·韦德拉奥果：我不知道。无论是挑衅还是信念，都不重要。他是靠武力上台的。在民主制度下，他永远不可能掌权。只有独裁才能让他成为唯一掌握话筒的人，独自决定2500万人的未来。他想要一个权力不受制约的国家——一个可以因最微不足道的理由就让人消失的地方。而在民主制度下，他无法做到这一点。
Inoussa Ouédraogo: I do not know. Whether it is provocation or conviction, it doesn't matter. He came to power through force of arms. In a democracy, he would never have held power. Only a dictatorship allows him to remain the sole person holding the microphone and single-handedly deciding the future of 25 million people. He wants a country with no checks on his power – a place where one can vanish for the slightest reason. And in a democracy, he cannot achieve that.
RFI：对特拉奥雷上尉来说，民主与革命密不可分。他声称自己是桑卡拉上尉的继承者，正在恢复以主权原则为根基的革命事业。这两位戴红色贝雷帽的军官是否有某些共同点？
RFI: For Captain Traoré, democracy goes hand in hand with revolution. He asserts that he is Captain Sankara’s successor and is resuming his revolutionary work rooted in the principle of sovereignty. Do the two red-bereted officers share certain common points?
IO：从形式上看，是的：两位34岁的上尉，都是通过政变上台的。但从实质上看，不幸的是，他们似乎截然相反。桑卡拉的革命首先是要实现民主和基层参与。桑卡拉代表的是谦逊、辩论和透明。易卜拉欣·特拉奥雷代表的则是沉默和完全的不透明。桑卡拉曾说过：“那些堵住人民嘴巴的人有祸了。”今天，所有人都知道，他们正在堵住布基纳法索人民的嘴巴。
IO: In terms of form, yes: two 34-year-old captains who both came to power via a coup d'état. But in terms of substance, unfortunately, they seem to be polar opposites. Sankara’s revolution was intended, first and foremost, to be democratic and grassroots. Sankara stood for humility, debate, and transparency. Ibrahim Traoré represents silence and total opacity. Sankara used to say, "Woe to those who gag the people." Today, everyone knows that they are gagging the Burkinabé people.
布基纳法索遇害领导人托马斯·桑卡拉在其遇害地重新安葬 RFI：特拉奥雷上尉执政的头四年以大量镇压措施为标志。然而，该政权坚称这是打击圣战威胁所必需的。您对此怎么看？
Burkina Faso’s murdered leader Thomas Sankara reburied at site of his death RFI: The first four years of Captain Traoré's regime have been marked by numerous repressive measures. However, the regime maintains that this is justified by the fight against the jihadist threat. What is your take on this?
IO：我认为这不过是一个尽可能长期把持权力的借口。对这些军人来说，战争已经变成了一种生意——就像咖啡和可可贸易一样。打击恐怖主义并不一定要牺牲人民的权利。
IO: I believe it is simply a pretext to hold onto power for as long as possible. For these military figures, war has become a sort of business – akin to the coffee and cocoa trade. It is possible to fight terrorism without sacrificing the people's rights.
我心系所有亲人被绑架的妇女和儿童。失踪者中包括记者、医生、律师、宗教领袖，甚至还有军人。我想到了一位两年前失踪的同事。我还想到另一个人，他身患重病，据我们所知，他曾请求接受治疗，但未能如愿。我想到近80岁高龄的伊玛目马哈茂德·迪亚洛（Mahmoud Diallo），他消失得无影无踪。我们成立了一个名为“反政变阵线”的组织，记录了200多名被该政权绑架、囚禁和折磨的人；其中82人的情况被收录在我们汇编的档案中，并将于9月30日发布。这实在令人遗憾。反恐不能成为这一切的借口。
My thoughts go out to all the women and children whose loved ones have been abducted. Among the missing are journalists, doctors, lawyers, religious leaders, and even military personnel. I am thinking of a colleague who disappeared over two years ago. I am thinking of another person, who is ill and – according to the information we have – has requested medical treatment without success. I am thinking of Imam Mahmoud Diallo, a man nearly 80 years old; he vanished without a trace. We established an organisation called the Anti-Putschist Front, which has documented over 200 people abducted, held captive, and tortured by this regime; 82 of them appear in a photo dossier we compiled and are releasing on 30 September. It is truly regrettable. The fight against terrorism cannot justify all of this.
法国国际广播电台（RFI）：2025年初，特拉奥雷（Traoré）上尉前往加纳参加马哈马（Mahama）总统的就职典礼时，受到了现场数千名民众的起立鼓掌。您如何解释他在国外的这种受欢迎程度？
RFI: When Captain Traoré went to Ghana in early 2025 for President Mahama's inauguration ceremony, he was given a standing ovation by the thousands of people gathered for the occasion. How do you explain this popularity abroad?
IO：当时我确实在阿克拉。我亲眼目睹了这一切；我看到了加纳人的反应。但你要知道，蒙博托（Mobutu Sese Seko，1971年至1997年扎伊尔首任及唯一一位总统）也曾广受欢迎——他也曾受到欢呼。所有的独裁者在某个阶段都会受到欢迎。受欢迎程度并不重要。在我看来，重要的是改善人民的生活。布基纳法索人民的生活条件改善了吗？恐怖主义难道没有继续让他们受苦吗？难道没有成千上万的人流离失所吗？人们能吃饱饭吗？
IO: I was actually in Accra at that time. I was watching; I saw how Ghanaians reacted. But you know, Mobutu [Sese Seko, the first and only president of Zaïre from 1971 to 1997] was popular too – he was cheered. All dictators are, at some point. Popularity doesn't matter. In my view, what matters is improving the lives of one's people. Have the living conditions of the Burkinabé people changed? Isn't terrorism still causing them to suffer? Aren't thousands of people still displaced? Are people getting enough to eat?
布基纳法索军政府首脑称国家必须“忘记”民主。RFI：特拉奥雷上尉受到赞赏，难道不是因为他被视为国家主权的捍卫者吗？这种诉求难道没有赋予他某种合法性吗？
Burkina junta chief says country must 'forget' democracy RFI: Isn't Captain Traoré being applauded because he is viewed as a proponent of sovereignty? And doesn't that cause lend him a certain legitimacy?
IO：任何人都可以自称是主权的捍卫者，任何人都可以自称是泛非主义者；任何人都可以反对帝国主义。但是，争取主权的斗争与反对恐怖主义的斗争绝不能成为绑架他人、监禁他们、严重侵犯人权或拒绝民主的借口。泛非主义者一直在为非洲人民而奋斗，同时他们从未损害过自己国家的利益，也从未试图颠覆本国的宪法。
IO: Anyone can claim to be a proponent of sovereignty. Anyone can call themselves a Pan-Africanist; anyone can fight against imperialism. But the struggle for sovereignty and the fight against terrorism cannot justify abducting people, imprisoning them, committing massive human rights violations, or rejecting democracy. Pan-Africanists have fought for Africans without needing to undermine their own people or subvert their constitutions. That is the point.
这一点是无可争议的。至于易卜拉欣·特拉奥雷（Ibrahim Traoré），我们反对的只是他管理公民生活的方式罢了。没有人反对非洲人民的主权——恰恰相反，我们都支持非洲的真正解放。但是，你不能通过压制人民的言论来“解放”他们；试图让人民保持沉默，实际上是在阻碍他们的解放进程。这既矛盾又荒谬。
No one opposes that. Regarding Ibrahim Traoré – it is simply his way of managing the lives of his fellow citizens that we oppose. No one is against the sovereignty of African people – quite the opposite. We all support the true liberation of Africa. But you do not liberate your people by gagging them. You cannot seek to liberate a people while silencing them. It is paradoxical; it is contradictory.
RFI：当特拉奥雷上尉声称过去四年里圣战者在布基纳法索的势力已经减弱时，这种说法是对还是错？
RFI: When Captain Traoré claims that jihadists have lost ground in Burkina Faso over the past four years, is that true or false?
IO：现实情况却完全相反。我们的安全部队每天都在牺牲，他们的遗体往往在夜间被草率地埋葬，甚至没有得到应有的军事仪式；公众对此一无所知。那些敢于公开反对这种暴行的士兵会被逮捕并被迫离开军队，甚至被迫流亡。当局自己也承认，我国近30%的领土仍处于他们的控制之外。
IO: The reality on the ground tells a different story. My thoughts are with our security forces, who are killed every day and buried hastily – without military honours, often under the cover of night – so that the public remains unaware. Those who speak out against this are arrested and then dismissed from the service; they are forced into exile. The authorities themselves acknowledge that nearly 30 percent of our territory remains beyond their control.
RFI：在军政府修改刑法的过程中，布基纳法索决定恢复死刑。此外，该政权还宣布了多项重大建设项目，比如在瓦加杜古（Ouagadougou）建设金矿精炼厂以及修建连接瓦加杜古与博博-迪乌拉索（Bobo-Dioulasso）的高速公路。这对你们的国家来说不是好消息吗？
Burkina Faso moves to reinstate death penalty as junta overhauls penal code RFI: The regime is announcing major works and large-scale projects such as a gold refinery in Ouagadougou and a highway between Ouagadougou and Bobo-Dioulasso. Isn't that good news for your country?
IO：是的，这确实是好消息。我们需要发展，需要基础设施（比如道路）。就连莫布图（Mobutu）也曾推行过一些“宏大的项目”来转移民众的注意力。
IO: Yes, that is excellent news. We need development. We need roads. Even Mobutu had his own pharaonic projects to serve as a distraction.
RFI：在过去四年里，布基纳法索人民的日常生活有没有改善呢？
RFI: Over the past four years, has the daily life of the Burkinabé people improved or not?
记者：我不这么认为。日子依然艰难。通货膨胀依然存在。燃料价格上涨了，水泥价格上涨了，大米、食用油等价格也都上涨了。所有东西都涨价了，但工资却没有上涨。同时，每天都有人被扣钱。为了支持战争行动，所谓“爱国基金”的费用直接从工资中扣除。没错，打击恐怖主义是件好事，让民众能够为此出力也是好事，但民众仍然需要谋生。
IO: I don't think so. Life is still hard. There is inflation. The price of fuel has gone up, the price of cement has gone up, as have the prices of rice, oil, and so on. Everything has gone up. Meanwhile, wages haven't risen. At the same time, money is being deducted on a daily basis. There are salary cuts for the so-called patriotic fund to support the war effort. Yes, fighting terrorism is a good thing, and it is good for the people to be able to contribute, but the people need to make a living.