纽伦堡审判是由盟军在第二次世界大战后举行的，旨在起诉那些犯有战争罪的纳粹高级官员。审判于1946年10月1日结束。这为期10个月的审判过程成为国际刑事司法史上的一个转折点，为国际刑事法院（ICC）的成立奠定了基础。布鲁诺·卡塔拉（Bruno Cathala）曾参与国际刑事法院的建立工作，他向RFI电视台讲述了纽伦堡审判如何改变了历史的进程。
The Nuremberg trials, held by the Allied powers after the Second World War to prosecute prominent Nazis for war crimes, came to an end on 1 October, 1946. The 10 months of hearings marked a turning point in international criminal justice, paving the way for the International Criminal Court. Bruno Cathala, who helped build the ICC, tells RFI how the Nuremberg trials changed the course of history.
纽伦堡审判最终判处12名纳粹被告死刑，另有7名被告被判处10年至无期徒刑不等的刑罚。
The Nuremberg trials concluded by sentencing 12 Nazi defendants to death and seven to periods of imprisonment ranging from 10 years to life.
在此之前，国际法主要针对国家而非个人；纽伦堡审判开创了以个人罪名起诉战争罪、反人类罪和危害和平罪的先例。
Prior to this, international law dealt primarily with states rather than individuals. Nuremberg set the precedent in terms of prosecuting individuals for war crimes, crimes against humanity and crimes against peace.
审判结束后，联合国于1950年正式制定了《纽伦堡原则》——这套原则确立了个人责任、国际法的至高无上性、国家元首不享有豁免权，以及“服从命令”并不能免除个人责任等基本原则。
Following the trials, the United Nations in 1950 codified the Nuremberg Principles – seven guidelines which established principles including individual responsibility, the supremacy of international law, a lack of immunity for heads of state and the fact that following orders did not relieve an individual of responsibility.
这些原则为2002年国际刑事法院的成立奠定了基础。国际刑事法院是全世界唯一的常设独立国际法庭，专门负责起诉犯有种族灭绝罪、战争罪和反人类罪的个人。
These paved the way for the founding in 2002 of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the world's only permanent independent international tribunal, which prosecutes individuals for genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity.
法国法官布鲁诺·卡塔拉在国际刑事法院的创建过程中发挥了重要作用，并于2003年至2008年期间担任该法院的首任书记官。他向RFI电视台解释了为什么纽伦堡审判具有如此重要的历史意义。
French judge Bruno Cathala was integral to the creation of the ICC and served as its first registrar from 2003 to 2008. Also the author of , he spoke to RFI about why the Nuremberg Trials were a turning point.
布鲁诺·卡塔拉表示：“实际上，纽伦堡审判不仅改变了国际法的历史，更改变了整个世界的历史。纽伦堡审判之后，一切都发生了变化。”
How Germany's Nuremberg trial for Nazi crimes transformed international law Bruno Cathala: In reality, [Nuremberg] didn't just change the history of international law. It changed the history of the world.
在纽伦堡审判之前，各个国家都是拥有绝对主权的实体；人们无法起诉这些国家的领导人。虽然国家本身可能需要承担法律责任，但其领导人却可以免于被追究责任。事实上，1919年曾有人试图起诉威廉二世皇帝，但他始终留在荷兰，没有遭到引渡，因此从未有任何国家元首真正受到审判。
Everything changed with Nuremberg. Before Nuremberg states were sovereign, absolutely sovereign. You couldn't prosecute the leaders of states. States could be held responsible, but not their leaders. In fact, there had been an attempt to prosecute Kaiser Wilhelm II in 1919. He remained in the Netherlands, he was not extradited and so no head of state was ever put on trial.
直到1945年，人们首次意识到：不仅国家本身需要承担责任，个人也同样需要承担法律责任。这才是真正的重大变革。
Then, for the first time in 1945, the idea emerged that it was not only abstract entities, the states, that were responsible, but individuals. That was the great change.
第二个根本性的变化是：国家不能再像纳粹德国那样随心所欲地制定法律。换句话说，任何人都不可以犯下反人类罪、种族灭绝罪或战争罪，然后还声称自己可以在自己的国家范围内为所欲为。这一原则至今仍然有效。
There was responsibility and there was an attempt to end impunity. That was the first fundamental change. The second fundamental change was the idea that states could not simply make whatever laws they wanted, as Nazi Germany had done. In other words, you cannot commit crimes against humanity, genocide or war crimes and claim that you can do whatever you want within your own state. That was also a fundamental change, and it still applies today.
国际法庭以反人类罪判处“中央非洲共和国”反政府武装组织指挥官有罪。那么，纽伦堡审判究竟开创了多少“第一”呢？
International court convicts CAR rebel commander of crimes against humanity RFI: So Nuremberg was a trial of many firsts? BC: The 24 defendants [who were indicted] at Nuremberg were the main surviving Nazi leaders.
BC：在纽伦堡被起诉的24名被告都是当时仍在世的纳粹主要领导人，包括戈林、赫斯、里宾特洛甫、罗森贝格等纳粹高层人物。他们的出庭对世界产生了深远的影响——他们终于被当作罪犯来对待。对于国际社会、受害者以及所有遭受过苦难的人来说，这无疑是一个巨大的进步。
There was Göring, Hess, Ribbentrop, Rosenberg and other leading Nazi figures. That was something fundamental. When you see these people in the defendants' box, the world changes. What I mean is that they are finally seen for what they are: criminals sitting in the defendants' box. For the international community, for the victims and for everyone who had suffered, that was an enormous change.
RFI：纽伦堡审判的目的，就是为了向各国领导人传递这样的信息吗？
RFI: Was that the idea of the Nuremberg trials, to send that message to heads of state and leaders?
BC：没错。纽伦堡审判的意义不仅在于向纳粹德国传递这一信息，更在于向所有参与审判的国家（包括美国、法国、俄罗斯和苏联）传递这一信息。
BC: Absolutely. In reality, the spirit of Nuremberg was not only about sending that message to Nazi Germany, but also about sending it to ourselves – to the Americans, the French and the Russians, the Soviets, who were there.
我要引用罗伯特·杰克逊（Robert Jackson）的话，他是美国首席检察官，也是纽伦堡审判中的伟大人物之一，以及国际刑事司法领域的一位巨匠。
I will quote what Robert Jackson said, the United States chief prosecutor who was one of the great figures at Nuremberg and one of the great figures in international criminal justice.
他在向法官们发表讲话时说道：“我并不指望你们能消灭战争，但我们希望将国际及其规范和禁令的力量，用于为和平服务。”而且这适用于任何国家，无论哪个国家。
Speaking to the judges, he said: “I do not expect that you can make war impossible, but we hope to place the force of international law, its prescriptions and its prohibitions, at the service of peace.”And that applies regardless of the country.
RFI：纽伦堡审判之后，国际司法在整个冷战期间沉寂多年。在您的书中，您回忆起在20世纪70年代末作为一名学生时，您的某位教授曾说过：“起诉国家元首？你不是在开玩笑吧。”
RFI: After the Nuremberg trials, international justice lay dormant for years, throughout the Cold War. In your book , you recall that when you were a student in the late 1970s, one of your professors said: "Prosecuting heads of state? You can't be serious."
BC：这正是当今发生根本变化的地方。我们不能再那样说了。不同的国家和人民对此都有所关注。有些人不希望有国际刑事法院，有些人则希望有，还有些人则不想接受审判。
BC: That's exactly what has fundamentally changed today. We can no longer say that. There is a concern among different countries and people. Some don't want the International Criminal Court, some want it, some don't want to be tried.
但在20世纪70年代，已经没有人再谈论这个了。正如您所说，那是一种长眠。一方面是冷战。另一方面是去殖民化战争。没有人真正愿意受制于国际司法。
But in the 1970s, nobody was talking about it anymore. As you said, there was a kind of great sleep. On the one hand, there was the Cold War. On the other hand, there were the decolonisation wars. Nobody really wanted to be subject to international justice.
重大的变化发生在柏林墙倒塌之后。从那时起，各国开始达成共识，即事情不仅应该通过武力来解决，而且战争最终应该通过正义来处理。他们在前南斯拉夫和卢旺达使用了武力。但他们表示，应该因所犯下的罪行对负责人进行审判。RFI：请跟我们讲讲国际刑事法院的初期情况……BC：我们是从一无所有开始的。荷兰政府给我们租了一栋大楼，这里以前是荷兰电信公司的总部。
The major change came after the fall of the Berlin Wall. From that point on, states began to agree that things should not only be settled by force, but that wars should finally be dealt with through justice. They used force in the former Yugoslavia and in Rwanda. But they said that those responsible should be tried for the crimes they had committed. RFI: Tell us about the beginnings of the ICC... BC: We started with nothing. The Dutch state had rented us a building that had previously housed the Dutch telecommunications company.
它有13层，里面空无一物。所以，如果可以这样比喻的话，我们必须用法律条文来填满这个空壳。我们必须一切从头建设。
It had 13 floors and there was nothing in it. So we had to fill, if you like – this empty shell – with legal texts. We had to build everything.
波斯尼亚塞族“铁娘子”、战争罪定罪者普拉夫西奇去世，享年96岁法广：您曾说过，建立机构有点像用乐高积木盖房子：重要的是它能稳固地立住。这个比喻今天又被用上了。美国国务卿马可·鲁比奥最近表示，他要一块砖一块砖地拆掉国际刑事法院。当您听到这种对您参与创建的机构的攻击时，您作何反应？
Bosnian Serb 'Iron Lady' war crimes convict Plavsic dies aged 96 RFI: You've said that creating institutions is a bit like building a house with Lego: what matters is that it holds together. This is an image that is being used again today. US Secretary of State Marco Rubio said recently that he would dismantle the ICC brick by brick. How do you react when you hear such attacks on something you helped create?
BC：我首先会思考这段历史——国际刑事司法的历史，以及人类精神进步的历史。这段历史并非线性的，但它总是在向前推进。美国人以前也这么干过。从一开始，他们就攻击国际刑事法院，然后他们又回来了，接着又离开了。
BC: I first react by thinking about this history – the history of international criminal justice and the history of the progress of the human spirit. It is a history that is not linear, but it always moves forward. The Americans have done this before. From the beginning, they attacked the ICC, then they came back, then they left again.
来自不同方面的阻力和反对一直存在。国际舆论、非政府组织以及各国都存在阻力，因为决定加入国际刑事法院的国家也在冒着主权受损的风险。因此，我的反应是，国际刑事司法领域历来都有起伏。
There is resistance and opposition from different sides. There is resistance from international public opinion, from NGOs and from states too, because the states that decided to sign up to the International Criminal Court are also putting their sovereignty at stake. So my reaction is that there have always been ups and downs with international criminal justice.
实际上，事情最终会发展变化。我认为，情况会逐渐向积极的方向转变。所以，我们现在必须坚持下去。法广：那么，您不认为国际刑事法院今天面临消亡的危险吗？
In reality, things evolve in the end. And I think things will gradually change in a positive direction. So, we have to hold on now. RFI: So you don't think the ICC is in danger of dying today?
BC：只要还有国家支持它，只要还有高素质的法官，我相信，只要还有人们理解法治对他们自身也是根本性的，我就不认为它面临消亡的危险。
BC: As long as we have states that support it, as long as we have high-quality judges, I believe, and as long as we have people who understand that the rule of law is fundamental for them too, I don't think it is in danger of dying.