一部纽约制作的戏剧将拉里·克莱默和安东尼·福奇1993年的辩论呈现得栩栩如生。
A New York production brings Larry Kramer and Anthony Fauci’s 1993 debate to life in a masterclass of controlled fury On 30 November 1993, the Aids activist Larry Kramer and Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, were arguing again.
1993年11月30日，艾滋病活动家拉里·克莱默与美国国家过敏和传染病研究所所长安东尼·福奇再次展开辩论。
They argued a lot back then about the US government’s response, or lack thereof, to the Aids crisis.
当时他们就美国政府对艾滋病危机的应对措施（或说是无所作为）展开了激烈争论。
Fauci asserted institutional legitimacy.
福奇强调机构的合法性，而克莱默则指责任何对种族灭绝行为负有责任的机构都毫无合法性可言。
Kramer scolded that any institution presiding over a genocide doesn’t have any.
克莱默希望将福奇从政治和官僚主义的束缚中解放出来，而福奇则希望平息克莱默的激烈言辞。尽管他们既是盟友也是对手，但彼此之间也经常互相调侃。当晚，他们在C-Span频道进行了这场辩论。
Kramer wanted to untie Fauci’s hands from politics and bureaucracy; Fauci wanted to de-escalate Kramer’s vituperous hand-wringing. They also ribbed each other, allies as often as antagonists. On the night they appeared on C-Span, the buttoned-up not-for-profit cable channel better known for unfettered congressional coverage than for the verbal pyrotechnics of CNN’s Crossfire, or the revelations-as-entertainment approach to politics by Oprah and Donahue.
C-Span是一个以无拘无束的国会报道而闻名的非营利性电视频道，其节目风格与CNN的《Crossfire》或奥普拉、多纳休的娱乐化政治节目截然不同。但这次辩论却与众不同。
But this night was different. Journalist Steve Scully spent the hour trying to moderate Kramer and Fauci as they attacked and amused each other: he redirected them back to his questions when passions erupted, and kept those questions to centrist concerns of, mostly, money.
记者史蒂夫·斯卡利试图在两人互相攻击和调侃的过程中引导他们的讨论，将话题重新引回到核心问题——资金问题上。
And in between all this he took he took calls from civilians whose empathy and expertise in Aids, let’s say, ranged wildly.
在整个过程中，他还接听了来自普通民众的电话，这些人对艾滋病的了解和专业知识水平参差不齐。
It was an exhausting hour, which settled little.
虽然这场辩论没有达成任何实质性成果，但它展示了当人们大声争吵以便让自己的声音被听到时，也有可能真正开始倾听对方的观点。
But it showed what just might happen when people yell at each other loudly enough so they can be heard, and also listen.