杰西·马什今夏率领加拿大队在世界杯上止步16强。摄影：Chris Young/The Canadian Press/AP 专访 杰西·马什：“作为美国人，我们自幼便被灌输宣传” 乔·卡拉汉 蒙特利尔报道 随着备战对阵祖国的比赛，加拿大主帅反思其移居国的足球、总理及其世界地位 蒙特利尔的最佳赏枫期尚未到来，但赋予这座城市名字的皇家山上，金黄与焦糖色的色块正以肉眼可见的速度蔓延扩展。
Jesse Marsch led Canada to a last 16 exit at the World Cup this past summer. Marsch: ‘We, as Americans, have been inundated with propaganda since we were young’ Joe Callaghan in Montreal As he prepares to face his home nation, the Canada manager reflects on his adopted country’s soccer, its prime minister, and its place in the world Peak leaf hasn’t yet arrived in Montreal but the bursts of gold and butterscotch up on the hill that gave this place its name still mushroom out by the hour.
坐在皇家山脚下一家酒店玻璃围合的中庭里，加拿大男足主教练杰西·马什心系另一场收获。等这段漫长的秋季国际比赛日窗口期结束，他将前往意大利，那里托斯卡纳别墅的橄榄作物已可收割。
Sitting in a glass-panelled hotel mezzanine at the foot of Mount Royal, Canada men’s coach Jesse Marsch has his mind on another harvest. When this extended autumnal international window ends he will decamp to Italy, where olive crops at his Tuscan villa are ready for reaping.
近期加拿大与欧洲的航班忙碌不已，象征性的跨大西洋距离也在迅速拉近。随着加拿大与南方最吵闹邻国的关系再度紧张裂痕，加拿大总理马克·卡尼正与欧盟建立如此紧密的联盟，以至于该集团显然正在创造新的成员资格类别。
Flight paths between Canada and Europe have been busy lately, and figurative transatlantic distances are closing fast. As Canada’s relations with the noisiest neighbour to the south stretch and fray anew, Canadian prime minister Mark Carney is forging alliances with the EU so close that the bloc is apparently inventing new membership categories.
作为一名居住在欧洲的美国人，同时也是一位拥有强劲支持率的加拿大领军人物，马什正在注视着这一切。在他看来，这感觉很对劲。
As an American residing in Europe who is also a Canadian leader with robust approval ratings, Marsch is watching. To him, it feels right.
“我一直觉得加拿大比美国更像欧洲一些。对吧？”马什在接受《卫报》采访时说道。“但现在政治和经济层面发生的事情足以表明，我们看起来更像欧洲了。甚至有关于[加拿大成为欧盟准成员国]的讨论正在实际发生。我喜欢这一方面。”
“I’ve always thought Canada was a little bit more European than the US anyway. Right?”Marsch says in an interview with the Guardian. “But certainly now there’s enough happening politically and economically that you would say, we’re looking much more like that. There’s talk of [Canada becoming an associate EU member] even actually happening. I like that aspect.
“加拿大在真正成为多元种族国家方面具有独特性。你可以看到，加拿大已不再仅仅是一个北美洲国家，你知道吗？这对我们的运动、我们球队的构成以及我们球迷的构成都是利好。” 在率领加拿大男足在今夏世界杯上创造历史性佳绩后，马施正在摸索着开启其执教生涯的“第二幕”。他在场边的一些举动——我们稍后会提到那个梗——在比赛期间可能惹恼了局外人，尤其是他在祖国美国的观众。
“There’s a uniqueness to Canada in terms of how truly multi-ethnic this country has become. You can see that Canada is not just a North American country any more, you know? That bodes well for our sport and for the makeup of our team, the makeup of our fans.”Having led Canada’s men to some historic highs at this summer’s World Cup, Marsch is feeling his way into his second act in the job. Some of his sideline displays – we’ll get to that meme – may have irked outsiders, especially in his homeland, during the tournament.
然而，在续约四年之后，绝大多数加拿大人都很高兴由他掌舵。他与领导全国的那位足球迷总理之间，有着不止一个交集。
Yet, having extended for four more years, Marsch is someone an overwhelming majority of Canadians are happy to have at the helm. There are more than a few cross-points between him with the football man leading the country at large.
“给我的印象是，首先，他是个非常聪明的人，但也是个非常普通的人，” 马施向《卫报》谈及卡尼时表示，后者曾出席多场加拿大队的世界杯比赛。“有时你会见到一位美国总统，会被他们的气场、职位本身所震慑。我亲自见过克林顿、老布什、奥巴马、特朗普、拜登。哦，还有卡特。共六位。卡尼跟他们相比，最接近的是奥巴马。有一种真正的智者气质，但也有一种真正的普通人气质。我认为这非常适合这个国家和这个时刻。
“My impression is that first of all, he is a really smart guy, but a really normal guy,” Marsch tells the Guardian of Carney, who attended a number of Canada’s World Cup matches. “Sometimes you meet a US president, and you’re overwhelmed, maybe by their presence, the position itself. I’ve met Clinton, George Bush Sr., Obama, Trump, Biden. Oh, and Carter. Six in person. Carney, compared to all of them, the closest would be Obama. A real air of intelligence, but a real air of being a regular guy. I think that that’s perfect for this country and this moment.
“他对我们给予了巨大支持。我跟他开玩笑说：‘听说你是埃弗顿球迷？’他说：‘是啊。’我说：‘那我得表示同情了。’他反问：‘为什么大家都这么说？每个人都得选定一支球队并坚定支持。’我说：‘我很欣赏你不像其他人那样从埃弗顿转投阿森纳或利物浦。’ 这份真诚实在难得。美国总统会是埃弗顿球迷吗？绝无可能。” 加拿大总理马克·卡尼在2026年世界杯加拿大队战胜卡塔尔队后，在更衣室向马施率领的球队表示祝贺。
“He has shown great support for us. I made a joke with him that ‘I heard you’re an Everton fan?’ and he goes, ‘yeah’, and I go, ‘I’m sorry about that’. He replies ‘why does everybody say that? Everybody has to pick their team and stick by them.’ I said, ‘I appreciate that you don’t switch from Everton to Arsenal or Liverpool, like everybody else’. There’s something so genuine [about] that. Could a president of the US ever could be an Everton fan? No chance.”Canada prime minister Mark Carney greeted Marsch’s team in the locker room after the team’s win over Qatar at the 2026 World Cup.
摄影：Jared C Tilton/FIFA/Getty Images作为一种自然冲动，环境逼迫马施在加拿大与其祖国美国关系持续降温期间扮演政治家角色。他曾表现得强硬反抗，猛烈抨击特朗普的“第51个州”言论，随后又更圆滑地应对。有时，尤其是涉及美国足协时——他指责对方曾以工作邀请吊着他，最后却反悔——他难以掩饰内心的鄙视。
Circumstances, as natural impulses, have led Marsch to play statesman during this prolonged cooling of relations between Canada and his home country. He’s been defiant, lashing out at Donald Trump’s “51st state” barbs, then more deft. Sometimes, especially when it comes to the US Soccer Federation he said led him on with a job offer only to renege, he finds it hard to hide disdain.
这个国际比赛日窗口期是他加拿大执教计划翻开新篇章的开始。他笑着承认，未来四年漫长漫长，但眼前有迫切目标——时隔25年夺得首座冠军奖杯，冲进并稳固世界前24名。
This window is the start of turning the page to the next phase of his Canada project. He admits, with a chuckle, that the four years stretching ahead feel long but there are imminent goals – a first trophy in 25 years, cracking and consolidating inside the world’s top 24.
在多伦多击败智利，以及周六下午在此以2比0战胜秘鲁，这两场被冠以“归乡之战”头衔的比赛取胜，算是个扎实开局。多名新人完成首秀。核心球员们在新环境中如鱼得水，莫过于在马德里竞技大放异彩的乔纳森·戴维。球队克服了主力长期伤缺、队长阿方索·戴维斯缺席（为蜜月旅行跳过本窗口期）的尴尬局面。
A win over Chile in Toronto and 2-0 win over Peru here on Saturday afternoon in games billed as The Homecoming made for a solid start. New caps have been handed out. Key players arrived thriving in new surroundings, none more than Jonathan David at Atlético Madrid. Extended injury absences and the awkward non-attendance of captain Alphonso Davies (skipping the window to honeymoon) have been overcome.
但周二在圣保罗与美国队的对决，意味着更多关于美国的提问将至。回顾过去，福拉林·巴洛贡的国籍选择风波，简直是为马施式判词量身定制。他当然有话要说。跳过通讯推广跳过通讯推广“这是个深度话题，”他向后靠去，“我们美国人从小就被灌输宣传。我们是世界第一国家，理应拥有一切，主宰一切，在生活各方面都是第一。这是我们被告知的。所以，当事情发生、我们感觉失控时……我们觉得理应受到不同对待，因为我们是美国人。这是激怒世界其他地区对美国人反感的原因之一。如果美国人从不出国，他们永远不会知道这一点。
But Tuesday’s clash with the US in Saint Paul means more American questions are coming. Looking back, the Folarin Balogun affair feels absolutely tailor-made for a Marschian verdict. He, of course, has thoughts. “Well, this is a deep conversation,” he leans back. “We, as Americans, have been inundated with propaganda since we were young. We’re the No 1 country in the world, we deserve everything, we dominate everything, No 1 in every aspect of life. This is what we’ve been told. So, when things happen and we don’t feel like we’re in control of it … we feel like we deserve to be treated differently because we’re Americans. That is one of the things that infuriates the rest of the world about Americans. And Americans don’t know that if they don’t ever leave the country.
“巴洛贡事件发生后，我的感受是：这种事在世界上任何其他国家都不可能发生，也正因如此，全世界的人都讨厌美国。事实也证明了这一点。当时美国队在世界杯上的表现相当出色。可就在瞬间，一切都变了。不过，我认为这背后涉及腐败与不公。问题在于，足球界充斥着这类现象。”
“So what I feel when the Balogun ruling happens is that would never happen in any other country in the world, and this is why everyone around the world hates America. That was proven to be so. The US had had a good World Cup, was doing well. All that switched in one moment. But do I think that that’s about corruption and unfairness? The problem is, football is inundated with this kind of stuff.”
那个搞笑动图也是世界杯留下的“遗产”……“有各种各样的人问我那是什么，是不是切肉机？”他提到自己在场边对着卡塔尔做出的那些滑稽动作，这些动作被制作成了动图，此后在马斯赫家族的WhatsApp群里被广泛使用。“有时候我自己都不知道在做什么。做完之后我就想：‘我干嘛要那样做？我真是个笨蛋。’”不过，对于足球界近期爆发的、堪称史上最严重的腐败丑闻，他并不觉得自己被蒙蔽了。
The meme is another World Cup leftover … “I’ve had all kinds of people ask me what it was, was it a meat slicer?” he says of sideline gyrations against Qatar that spawned a gif which has been used plenty in the Marsch family WhatsApp since. “I don’t know what I’m doing sometimes. As soon as I’ve done it, I’m like, ‘why did I do that? I’m such an idiot’.”He doesn’t feel fooled, however, by the sport’s latest, arguably greatest, modern corruption crisis.
2022-23赛季，他执教的利兹联队以5分之差未能保级，期间还多次输给曼城。那个赛季并不属于上周针对曼城的严厉指控中所说的“造假赛季”。但他坚称，这种不公平现象在他执教英格兰期间同样存在。
Defeats to Manchester City in 2022-23 didn’t help the Leeds United side Marsch had managed when they missed safety by five points. That campaign is not one of the “sham” seasons which were part of the damning verdict against City last week. But he’s adamant the unfairness extended to his time in England.
“我认为曼城应该受到严厉惩罚。我觉得他们就该降级。顺便说一句，所有人都知道这件事，所有人都心知肚明。”马斯赫还提到，在利兹联降级的那个赛季，埃弗顿和诺丁汉森林也因类似问题被扣分。
“I think Man City should be punished severely. I think they should have to go down, and by the way, everyone knew about it. Everyone knew,” says Marsch, who also pointed to Everton and Nottingham Forest later being deducted points for issues in the same season when Leeds were relegated below both.
“2022年那个夏天，我们和曼城是仅有的两支声称盈利的球队。对我们而言，我们确实盈利了，因为我们卖掉了拉菲尼亚，还把卡尔文·菲利普斯卖给了曼城。我们在引援支出后还有大量结余。当时，我们在财务上处于必须节约的状态，我们的老板并没有深不见底的财力。而曼城却这么说，我当时简直在想：‘你们在开玩笑吗？这是某种玩笑吗？’
“That summer [2022], us and Man City were the only teams that said we made money. For us, we did make money, because we sold Raphinha, we sold Kalvin Phillips [to City]. We had a lot left over from what we bought. At the time, we weren’t in a position financially to not save. Our ownership didn’t have deep pockets. Whereas when Man City says this, I was literally like, ‘Are you kidding me? Is this some kind of joke?’
当他们声称以5200万英镑签下了埃尔林·哈兰德时，我心想：‘行吧，好吧，没问题！’所以，我知道其中存在不一致之处，但你能怎么办呢？你只能摊开双手，说：‘这就是足球’。”
“When they said they got Erling Haaland for £52m, it’s like, ‘yeah, OK, sure!’ So, I knew there were inconsistencies in it, but what can you do? You just put your arms in the air and go, ‘this is football’.”