在接受RFI采访时，俄罗斯反对派人物弗拉基米尔·卡拉-穆尔扎指责法国发出了一个“非常危险”的信号，表明西方已经准备好恢复与弗拉基米尔·普京的“照常营业”，因为法国政府推动解除对俄罗斯-乌兹别克富豪阿里舍尔·乌斯马诺夫的欧盟制裁——卡拉-穆尔扎称此举为“可耻”。
In an interview with RFI, Russian opposition figure Vladimir Kara-Murza has accused France of sending a “very dangerous” signal that the West is ready to return to “business as usual” with Vladimir Putin, after the French government pushed for European Union sanctions against Russian-Uzbek billionaire Alisher Usmanov to be lifted – a move Kara-Murza called “shameful”.
欧盟在2022年2月俄罗斯全面入侵乌克兰后对乌斯马诺夫——这位与普京关系密切的金属大亨——实施了制裁，并在今年9月22日应法国的推动将其从名单中除名。
The EU sanctioned Usmanov, a metals tycoon with close ties to Putin, after Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 – and removed him from its list on 22 September this year, following a push from France.
外交官向路透社透露，法国受到阿塞拜疆的压力，后者扣押了法国公民——阿塞拜疆对此予以否认。
Diplomats told news agency Reuters that France had come under pressure from Azerbaijan, which was holding French citizens – a claim Azerbaijan has denied.
法国还请求将俄罗斯富豪米哈伊尔·弗里德曼从名单中除名。虽然他也被从欧盟名单中除名，但这是应卢森堡的请求而批准的。
France also requested the removal of Russian billionaire Mikhail Fridman. While he was also removed from the EU's list, this was granted at Luxembourg's request.
卡拉-穆尔扎于2022年4月在莫斯科因公开反对乌克兰战争被逮捕，并因叛国等罪名被判处25年监禁。他在2024年8月的东西方大规模囚犯交换中获释，现任美国总部的民主倡导组织“自由俄罗斯基金会”副主席。
Kara-Murza was arrested in Moscow in April 2022 after speaking out against the war in Ukraine and sentenced to 25 years imprisonment for treason and other charges. He was freed in a major East-West prisoner exchange in August 2024, and is now vice-president of the United States-based pro-democracy group Free Russia Foundation.
在周四于巴黎接受RFI采访时，他解释了为何认为普京需要战争来维持权力，并指出只要普京仍在克里姆林宫，冲突就不可能结束。
In an interview with RFI in Paris on Thursday, he explains why he believes Putin needs the war in order to remain in power, and that there can be no end to the conflict while he remains in the Kremlin.
RFI：在乌克兰战争超过四年半后，俄罗斯加大了袭击力度——尤其是对首都基辅的打击。普京是否因为看不到退路而升级战争？
RFI: After more than four and a half years of war in Ukraine, Russia is intensifying its strikes – particularly on the capital, Kyiv. Is Putin escalating the war because he sees no way back?
弗拉基米尔·卡拉-穆尔扎：弗拉基米尔·普京已经执政近27年。在这段时间里，这个人一直在杀戮——在我们国家俄罗斯内部，也在我们边界之外。普京的政权意味着战争。普京的政权意味着侵略。普京的政权意味着报复。
Vladimir Kara-Murza: Vladimir Putin has been in power for almost 27 years. Throughout that time, this man has continued to kill – inside our country, Russia, and outside our borders. Putin's regime means war. Putin's regime means aggression. Putin's regime means reprisals.
因此，只要这个人继续当权，这场战争就会持续下去。这是他保持权力的唯一途径。他是一个篡权者。他没有任何民主合法性，因为俄罗斯已经很多年没有举行过选举了。RFI：9月份曾举行过议会选举……VKM：是的，当然，那是所谓的选举。更不用说政府对媒体和政治系统拥有绝对控制权了。
So as long as this man stays in power, this war will continue. It's the only way for him to stay in power. He is a usurper. He has no democratic legitimacy because we haven't had elections in Russia for many years. RFI: There were parliamentary elections in September... VKM: Yes, of course, so-called elections. And that's without even talking about the government's total control over the media and political system.
即便在这些条件下，唯一的反战政党——反对乌克兰战争并呼吁立即停火的自由派政党“苹果”党——也被普京政权排除在选举之外。他们担心，即使是在一场闹剧般的选举中，也会有数百万俄罗斯人投票支持这个替代选项。但与此同时，他们实际上也承认，所有声称人人都支持这场战争的宣传都是弥天大谎。
Even under these conditions, the only anti-war party, Yabloko – a liberal party that opposes the war in Ukraine and calls for an immediate ceasefire – was excluded from the election by Putin's regime. They were afraid that even in an election that is a farce, millions of Russians would vote for this alternative. But at the same time, they effectively admitted that all the propaganda claiming everyone supports this war is a huge lie.
RFI：你因谴责俄罗斯入侵乌克兰而被判处25年监禁，并被裁定犯有叛国罪……VKM：是的。在俄罗斯，公开批评政府，尤其是反对战争，现在是一种刑事犯罪。
RFI: You were sentenced to 25 years in prison for condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine and convicted of high treason... VKM: Yes. In Russia now, speaking publicly against the government, and especially against the war, is a criminal offence.
我们现在在俄罗斯有2000多名已知的政治犯。在20世纪80年代中期，整个苏联——也就是今天的15个国家——大约有750名已知的政治犯。而仅俄罗斯一个国家现在就拥有2000多名。
We now have more than 2,000 known political prisoners in Russia. In the mid-1980s, there were around 750 known political prisoners across the entire Soviet Union – that's 15 of today's countries. Russia alone now has more than 2,000.
RFI：克里姆林宫发言人德米特里·佩斯科夫最近否认俄罗斯存在任何政治犯。你对此有何看法？
RFI: Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov recently denied that there are any political prisoners in Russia. What do you make of that?
VKM：这没什么新鲜的。在20世纪50年代，时任苏联领导人尼基塔·赫鲁晓夫也说过完全相同的话。他说苏联没有政治犯——只有罪犯或疯子。
VKM: There's nothing new about it. In the 1950s, Nikita Khrushchev, then leader of the Soviet Union, said exactly the same thing. He said there were no political prisoners in the Soviet Union – only criminals or madmen.
令我感到惊讶的是——我认为在巴黎谈论这一点很重要——就在两周前，法国要求解除对两名克里姆林宫主要寡头阿利舍尔·乌斯曼诺夫和米哈伊尔·弗里德曼的制裁。
What is surprising to me – and I think it's important to talk about this here in Paris – is that two weeks ago France asked for sanctions to be lifted against two major Kremlin oligarchs, Alisher Usmanov and Mikhail Fridman.
欧盟是在法国倡议之后采取这一行动的。在我看来，这传递出一个极其危险的信号：西方、欧盟，尤其是法国，已经准备与普京政权恢复“一切照旧”的状态，并再次与克里姆林宫实现关系正常化。
The European Union did so following the French initiative. For me, this sends a very dangerous signal that the West, the European Union and France in particular are ready to go back to business as usual with Putin's regime and normalise relations with the Kremlin again.
法国电力公司（EDF）因法国持续与俄罗斯保持核能合作而面临法律诉讼。如果法国真的下定决心——尽管我不知道具体原因——要解除对这两位与普京关系密切的寡头的制裁，那么法国政府为何至少不要求释放一些可能明天或下周就会死亡的俄罗斯政治犯呢？
EDF faces legal action over France’s continuing nuclear ties with Russia If France was so determined, for reasons I don't know, to lift sanctions against these two oligarchs close to Putin, why didn't the French government at least ask for the release of some Russian political prisoners who could die tomorrow or next week?
法国没有这样做，这一点让我感到震惊。这完全无法理解。如果允许我用一个词来形容，在我看来，这是可耻的。RFI：你为什么对法国的立场如此批评？
The fact that France didn't do that is staggering to me. It's incomprehensible. And if you'll allow me the word, in my view it's shameful. RFI: Why are you so critical of France's position?
VKM：这传递了一个极其危险的信息。它打开了潘多拉魔盒，因为其他所有寡头都会纷纷效仿，说：“既然他们可以，为什么我们不行？”但我并不想只批评法国。问题不仅出在法国。整个西方世界都存在一种危险的趋势。例如，加拿大已经解除对阿纳托利·丘拜斯（Anatoly Chubais）的制裁——他是一位前克里姆林宫高级官员，在2022年俄罗斯入侵乌克兰后离开了俄罗斯。
VKM: It sends a very dangerous message. It opens a Pandora's box because all the other oligarchs will come along and say: “If them, why not us?”But I don't want to criticise only France. It's not just France. There's a dangerous trend across the Western world. Canada, for example, has lifted sanctions against Anatoly Chubais [a former senior Kremlin official who left Russia after the 2022 invasion of Ukraine].
RFI：你的意思是，存在一种更广泛的趋势，即各国认为——并最终不得不——与普京对话？
RFI: Are you saying there is a broader trend towards thinking countries can – and eventually will have to – talk to Putin?
VKM：这完全荒谬。20世纪历史中最清晰的教训之一，就是纵容侵略者永远无法带来和平。它只会导致更多战争、更多流血、更多痛苦和更多罪行。
VKM: That's completely crazy. One of the clearest lessons of 20th-century history is that appeasing an aggressor never leads to peace. It always leads to more war, more blood, more pain and more crimes.
纵容侵略者、纵容独裁者，只会助长他们的胃口和野心。近年来，我们在弗拉基米尔·普京身上已经看到了这一点。而西方国家竟然打算重蹈覆辙，这对我来说简直令人难以置信。
Appeasing an aggressor, appeasing a dictator, only increases his appetite and ambitions. We've already seen that with Vladimir Putin over recent years. And it's absolutely staggering to me that Western countries are going to do it again.
就在一周前，美国总统唐纳德·特朗普邀请普京参加十二月在迈阿密举行的G20峰会。普京因战争罪行受到国际刑事法院的逮捕令，而美国总统——显然是世界上最重要的民主国家的领袖——却在邀请他。
Just a week ago, US President Donald Trump invited Putin to the G20 summit in Miami in December. Putin is the subject of an International Criminal Court arrest warrant as a war criminal, and the president of the United States – apparently the world's most important democracy – is inviting him.
我无言以对，不仅是用法语，甚至用俄语，都无法形容我对这一切的看法。
I have no words, not just in French but even in Russian, to describe what I think of all this.
欧盟和其他五个国家谴责俄罗斯的“假选举”。RFI：流亡的俄罗斯反对派人物加里·卡斯帕罗夫表示，他的生命受到威胁。上周，他称立陶宛和美国安全部门曾告知他要采取防范措施。您也是流亡的反对派人物，您是否感到自己有危险？
EU and five other countries condemn Russia's 'sham' elections RFI: Exiled Russian opposition figure Garry Kasparov has said his life is in danger. Last week, he said Lithuanian and US security services had told him to take precautions. You are also an opposition figure in exile. Do you feel that you are in danger?
VKM：我不知道。我不去想这些。每个人都了解弗拉基米尔·普京政权和俄罗斯情报机构FSB的现实。普京的安全部门在2015年和2017年两次对我下毒，然后给了我25年监禁。他们本可以在我在监狱的任何一天把我杀了。所以这并不新鲜。
VKM: I don't know. I don't think about it. Everyone knows the reality of Vladimir Putin's regime and the FSB [Russia's intelligence service]. Putin's security services poisoned me twice, in 2015 and 2017, and then they gave me 25 years in prison. They could have killed me in prison any day I was there. So there's nothing new about that.
唯一新鲜的是，显然这种事现在也可能在美国发生。有一种理论认为，1970年代美国和苏联情报机构达成了绅士协议。RFI：即他们不会在对方国家消除对方的人？
The only new thing is that apparently things like this can now happen in the United States too. There's a theory that in the 1970s the American and Soviet intelligence services reached a gentlemen's agreement. RFI: That they wouldn't eliminate people in each other's country?
VKM：正是如此。但美国司法部的这项宣布才是这里的新闻。我们知道普京政权不仅在俄罗斯国内，而且在国外攻击政治对手。我们已经在伦敦和柏林看到过。RFI：您会采取什么特别的防范措施吗？
VKM: Exactly. But this announcement from the US Justice Department is the news here. We know Putin's regime attacks its political opponents not only in Russia but abroad. We've seen it in London and Berlin. RFI: Do you take any special precautions?
VKM：不，真的没有。能做什么呢？如果每天都想着这些，你会变得偏执。我还有太多工作，没时间走那条路。
VKM: No, not really. What can you do? If you spend every day thinking about it, you become paranoid. I have too much work to go down that road.
我相信自己在做的事。我热爱我的国家，我希望俄罗斯成为一个文明、现代、欧洲化、民主的国家。我会尽一切可能让那一天更早到来。
I believe in what I'm doing. I love my country and I want Russia to become a civilised, modern, European, democratic country. I will do everything I can to make that day come a little sooner.