职业：中学英语教师投票记录：爱德华在工党和绿党之间摇摆开胃小菜：他在布里斯托尔主持口头诗歌之夜马丁，55岁，布伦特福德职业：私人教练投票记录：大多支持保守党，但曾投托尼·布莱尔一票开胃小菜：他曾是一名压力大、身体不佳的游说者，后来决定彻底改变。他开始参加10公里赛跑，接着参加超级马拉松，50岁时，他在400米跑道上连续跑了24小时，“因为我是个傻瓜”开场白马丁：我一开始有点担心，不知道会不会演变成争论。但他其实是个很好的人。爱德华：我们相处得非常愉快。那是一个令人愉快的夜晚。
Occupation English teacher at a secondary school Voting record Edward flips between Labour and Green Amuse bouche He runs spoken word poetry nights in Bristol Martin, 55, Brentford Occupation Personal trainer Voting record Mostly Conservative, but voted for Tony Blair Amuse bouche He used to be a stressed-out, unfit lobbyist, and decided to make drastic changes. He started running 10Ks, then ultra-marathons, and when he was 50 he ran round a 400m track for 24 hours, “because I’m an idiot” For starters Martin I was slightly apprehensive, wondering if it would descend into an argument. But he’s a really nice guy. Edward We got on really well. It was a delightful evening.
马丁：我先点了鱿鱼开胃，然后是开心果和辣椒蟹肉意面——味道很棒。还有一杯西西里柠檬水，以及我最爱的甜点，阿芙佳朵。
Martin I had the squid to start, then crab pasta with pistachio and chilli – it was lovely. Also, a Sicilian lemonade and my favourite dessert, affogato.
爱德华：我先吃了一份非常美味的金枪鱼塔塔，然后主菜是牛肉酱意面和一杯红酒，最后以阿芙佳朵收尾。大块牛肉马丁：我对净零的看法是，我们早就知道这基本上是不可能的，如果给人们一个不可能的目标，他们就会放弃。碳捕捉是英国实现净零的关键，但目前尚未有人证明它能在测试场地之外实现规模化。
Edward I had a very tasty tuna tartare to start, then for main a beef ragu and a glass of red wine, and finished with an affogato. The big beef Martin My view on net zero is that we already know it’s basically impossible, and if you give people an impossible target, they give up. Carbon capture is fundamental to the UK’s ability to hit net zero, and nobody has yet proved that it’s scalable beyond test sites.
爱德华：如果根本没有目标，那么也没有人会为之努力。但我认为需要更多的监督，确保我们把钱投入到最可能产生最大效果的事情上，而不仅仅是形式主义地打勾。
Edward If you don’t have a target at all, then nobody works towards anything. But I do think there needs to be more oversight, ensuring we’re putting the money into things that are most likely to have the biggest effects, and not just box-checking.
马丁：温度上限原本应该是1.5摄氏度，但可能会恶化到三度。如果我们真的偏离这么多，那就毫无意义了。
Martin The temperature limit was supposed to be 1.5C, but it could be as bad as three. If we’re going to miss it by that much, it’s pointless.
爱德华：他说我们大概率还是会达到3度，那么花这些钱还有什么意义？我觉得这有点消极 nihilistic。
Edward He was saying we’ll probably hit 3C anyway, so what’s the point in spending the money? I think that’s slightly nihilistic.
分享盘马丁 文职部门雇佣了超过55万人。我认为这太多了。约翰逊政府时期的唐宁街10号前通讯主管发现，他们实际的通讯人员比预期多了4000人。我认为我们可以通过技术来解决许多问题，而不是简单地增加人员。
Sharing plate Martin The civil service employs more than 550,000 people. I think that’s too many. The former head of No 10 comms under Boris Johnson found there were 4,000 more communications staff than they realised. I think we could fix a lot of our issues with tech, rather than throwing more bodies at them.
爱德华 鉴于他们需要解决的问题规模和人口规模，我认为员工人数并不算异常多。我们需要的是更好的管理。我们不需要那些在这些领域没有经验的部长上来大刀阔斧地改革，只是为了让他们的简历看起来好看。
Edward Given the scale of the issues they’ve got to address and the size of the population, I don’t think that’s a crazily large number of employees. What we need is better management of it. We don’t need ministers with no experience in these areas coming in and making massive changes because they want it to look good on their CV.
甜点后马丁 我认为我们需要增加国防开支，但不是用于士兵，而是用于网络战和无人机技术。我觉得爱德华有一个很有趣的观点：国防的一些成本可能会被气候危机所触发。因为如果我们继续目前的发展趋势，资源争夺和某些国家因无法居住而引发的大规模移民将导致冲突。
For afters Martin I think we need to increase defence spending, not on soldiers but cyberwarfare and drone technology. I thought Edward had a really interesting take: that some of the costs of defence are probably going to be triggered by the climate crisis. Because if we continue where we’re going, there will be conflicts over resources and mass migration from certain countries as they become unliveable.
爱德华 我们认为未来的袭击不太可能是炸弹或有人入侵英国，而是对银行系统的攻击，或者可能是无人机袭击。对我来说，国防意味着如果某事物与外界隔绝，你仍能自给自足、独立生存。如果一个国家对油价敏感，那么它就容易卷入冲突。我认为对抗外国恶势力最强有力的防线之一是实现能源独立——而只要有适当投资，我们完全可以做到。我们被海洋环绕，有阳光、风能和核能。
Edward We agreed future attacks are unlikely to be bombs or people invading the UK, but attacks on banking systems or possibly drone attacks. For me, defence means if something gets cut off from the outside, you’re able to exist on your own and support yourself. If you are vulnerable as a nation to oil prices, then you are vulnerable to conflicts. I think one of the strongest lines of defence against foreign bad actors is being energy independent – which we could be with proper investment. We’ve got sea around us, we’ve got sun, we’ve got wind, we’ve got nuclear.
要点马丁 我原本以为爱德华会认为核能是可怕的。但他并没有这样想。于是我的收获是：认识到并非所有参与或投资环保运动的人都持有相同的看法。我不知道他是否改变了我的想法，但他确实让我开始思考。
Takeaways Martin I assumed that Edward would have the view that nuclear power was abhorrent. But he didn’t. So my takeaway is realising that not everybody who’s involved or invested in the environmental movement thinks the same way. I don’t know if he changed my mind, but he definitely made me think.
爱德华 遇到一个我平时可能不会遇到的人真的很美好。我原本以为他会比实际更极端一些。我认为我们想要的东西其实并没有太大区别，只是实现方式不同罢了。爱德华和马丁在伦敦N6区的Citro餐厅共进了晚餐。想结识来自不同背景的人吗？了解如何参与其中。
Edward It was really lovely to meet somebody I probably wouldn’t normally come across. I thought he was going to be much more extreme than he was. I think we’re not so different in what we want, we just have different ways of getting there. Edward and Martin ate at Citro, London, N6. Want to meet someone from across the divide? Find out how to take part
