SIAN WATSON 伦敦 — 多面手艺术家、制作人和政治活动家布莱恩·伊诺，因开创性地推出环境音乐而广为人知，将于周五重新启动其具有变革性的Opal唱片公司。该唱片公司成立于1988年，1991年暂停运营，曾发行过实验音乐领域具有开创意义的艺术家的作品，其中包括乔纳森·哈塞尔、约翰·凯尔和伊诺本人。
SIAN WATSON LONDON — Brian Eno, the multi-hyphenate artist, producer and political activist best known for pioneering ambient music, will relaunch his transformative Opal Records on Friday. Founded in 1988 and put on hiatus in 1991, the label released works by formative names in experimental music: Jon Hassell, John Cale and Eno among them.
但为何要重启Opal，为何是现在？首先，该唱片公司的两张专辑“已经消失”，他想重新发行它们，伊诺在其家庭工作室接受美联社采访时这样表示。（收藏家们清楚：2005年的《Another Day on Earth》和2001年的《Drawn From Life》除日本以外很难找到。）重新审视旧唱片是这位传奇艺术家进行反思的机会。下面，伊诺讨论了Opal唱片公司的未来、人工智能、他的遗产，以及最近的新闻：说唱歌手麦克莱莫尔因在舞台上发表亲巴勒斯坦言论而被取消为埃德·希兰巡演的开场嘉宾。此访谈已为清晰和简洁进行过编辑。
But why bring back Opal, and why now? For one, two of its records “had disappeared” and he wanted to rerelease them, Eno told The Associated Press in his home studio. (Collectors are aware: 2005’s “Another Day on Earth” and 2001’s “Drawn From Life” have been hard to locate outside of Japan.) Revisiting old records is an opportunity to reflect for the legendary artist. And below, Eno discusses the future of Opal Records, artificial intelligence, his legacy and the recent news that rapper Macklemore was dropped as an opener for Ed Sheeran’s tour because of the rapper’s onstage pro-Palestinian comments. This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.
伊诺：我最近有个想法，要发行一套12张专辑的合集。我创作了很多从未发行的音乐，其中很多都很契合。这类似于实用主义的音乐，是你想打扫房间、读书或做类似事情时会放的那种音乐。你想要某种能帮助你为某种任务营造合适氛围的音乐。我现在正在考虑这一点。我们可以这样做，而且我不必强迫任何人。
ENO: I had an idea recently to release a 12-album set. I’ve got so much music I’ve made that I’ve never released and a lot of it fits together. It’s sort of similar utilitarian music and it’s the kind of thing you put on if you want to clean the house or read a book or something like that. You want some kind of music that helps you get the right atmosphere for a task of some kind. I’m now thinking about that. We could do that and I wouldn’t have to twist anybody’s arm.
伊诺：对我来说，有趣的是，我的专辑《机场音乐》如今已经48岁了，但它依然非常时尚。它仍在销售。人们喜欢它，我有时会遇到一些刚刚听到它的年轻人，他们以为我只是刚刚发行了它。
ENO: It’s interesting to me that (my album) “Music For Airports,” which is now 48 years old, it is still very current. It’s still selling. People like it and I sometimes meet young people who’ve only just heard it and who think I’ve only just released it.
伊诺：我想是因为，你知道的，你经常通过某些你下意识地与那个时代联系在一起的风格和技术特征来判断某事物的年代。例如，你几乎可以通过军鼓的处理方式辨别出20世纪80年代的任何流行唱片。《机场音乐》是一首极简的作品。它实际上并没有太多那种时代的印记。事实上，它甚至可能是今天创作的。可能现在正有人在制作它的一个版本，叫作《车站音乐》或《电动自行车》之类的东西。
ENO: I suppose because, you know, you often tell the age of something by certain stylistic and technical things that you unconsciously associate with that time. For instance, you can tell pretty much any pop record from the ‘80s just from the way the snare drum is treated. “Music for Airports” is such a stripped-down piece. It doesn’t really have many of those signatures on it. It could have been made today, actually. Probably somebody is making a version of it today, something called “Music for Trains” or “Electric Bicycles” or something.
伊诺：我对使用它进行创作的可能性很感兴趣。我对人工智能的问题在于其所有权，以及我所了解的那些拥有它的人的道德和社会价值观。他们确实是掌管如此强大之物最糟糕的人选之一。当然，另一个问题是，由于他们都在如此急切地逐利，彼此之间展开竞争，因此他们试图在赢得那场特定竞争方面胜过对方，而不是从造福世界的角度出发。
ENO: I’m fascinated by the possibility of working with it. My problem with AI is the ownership of it and what I know are the moral and social values of the people who own it. And they are really some of the worst people to be in charge of something as powerful as that. And of course, the other problem is because they’re all so chasing the dollar so earnestly, they’re in competition with each other, so they’re trying to outdo each other only in terms of winning that particular competition, not in terms of what benefits the world.
一项技术的演进，也就是它正在涌现的时期，是非常重要的。公众以某种方式参与其中也非常重要。否则，你就会陷入我们现在这种荒谬的境地——拥有了对我们任何人来说目前都过于强大而无法理解的自主人工智能，包括制造它们的人在内。这确实是监管的失败。
The evolution of a technology, that means the time when it is emerging, is very important. And it’s very important that the public is somehow engaged in that. Otherwise, you end with this ludicrous situation we have now, of agentic AIs that are far too powerful for any of us to understand at the moment, including the people who make them. It’s a real failure of regulation.
伊诺：我们真正应该指责的是那些不允许演出继续下去的人。我的意思是，埃德，我认为他当时表现得很软弱。他本可以表态：“我是一名艺术家。你们雇佣我是作为一名艺术家。这意味着你们得接受我对乐队应该是什么样以及我和谁一起演出的决定。”他本可以坚持这一点的。
ENO: The people we should really be pointing at are the people who didn’t permit the show to go on. I mean, Ed, I think, was weak. He could have said “I’m an artist. You hired me as an artist. That means you get my decisions about what the band should be and who I’m playing with.”He could have insisted on that.
尽管我也必须说，当成千上万的歌迷已经买好门票、做好出行和酒店等各项计划时，这是一个非常艰难的决定。所以，对他来说这不是一件容易的事。尽管如此。他本该做出某种反应。
Though I have to say, also, that’s a very hard decision to make when tens of thousands of fans have got their tickets and have made their travel plans and their hotel plans and everything else. So, it’s not an easy thing for him to do. Nonetheless. He should have made some kind of reaction.
我出生于1948年5月15日，那是“灾难日”（Nakba）。那是巴勒斯坦人被驱逐出他们在以色列的家园、并被告知他们不再属于那里的日子。因此，我与那段历史有着非常久远的、一生的联系。
I was born on May the 15th, 1948, which is the day of the Nakba. It’s the day when Palestinians were forced out of their homes in Israel and told that they no longer belonged there. So, I have a very long connection, a lifetime connection, with that.
伊诺：除非有什么机会。例如，最近有人问了我一些关于在柏林和法国与大卫（·鲍伊）合作制作20世纪70年代末那些唱片的问题。我想：“好吧，我来试着回答一下。”事实上，这挺有意思的。我本来没料到会这样，但突然试着去回想那些事情是如何发生的，确实很有趣。但我不会自然而然地去做这种事。眼下总有足够多的事情在发生，所以不必一直重温过去。也许等我真的很老的时候我会这么做。
ENO: Not unless there’s an occasion to. For instance, somebody just recently asked me some questions about working with David (Bowie) in Berlin and France for those late ‘70s records we made. I thought, “OK I’ll have a go at answering.”And actually, it was quite fun. I didn’t expect it to be, but suddenly trying to remember how those things actually came about was interesting. But I don’t do it naturally. There’s always enough going on now to not keep revisiting the past. Maybe when I’m really old I will.
实际上有越来越多要做的事。我真的很想退休。但我不知道如果退休了我会做什么。
There’s more and more to do actually. I would really love to retire. But I don’t know what I’d do if I retired.
伊诺：我唯一真正想做却从未做过的事，就是泡进一盆温热的橄榄油里。
ENO: The only thing I’ve ever really wanted to do that I’ve never done is to get into a warm bath of olive oil.
我从来都不是一个以目标为导向的人。我喜欢思考事情是如何制作的，而不是最终产出什么。所以，我更是一个注重过程的人。我喜欢发明做事的新方法。
I’ve never really been very much a goal-oriented person. I like thinking about how things are made, rather than what comes out at the end. So, I’m more of a means person. I like inventing new ways of doing things.