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克里斯·梅森:为什么首相想要再次谈论脱欧Chris Mason: Why the prime minister wants to talk about Brexit again

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伯恩姆:脱欧后的对欧现状“对英国来说不够好”Burnham: Post-Brexit status quo with Europe 'not good enough for Britain'

BBC政治编辑克里斯·梅森(Chris Mason)表示,自英国离开欧盟以来,我们迎来了第一位将“坚定不移”地辩论脱欧的首相。

For the first time since the UK left the EU, we have a prime minister who will "unflinchingly" debate Brexit, says the BBC's political editor Chris Mason.

克里斯·梅森(Chris Mason)报道 脱欧辩论又回来了。多年来,这感觉像是威斯敏斯特唯一讨论的话题。

By Chris Mason The Brexit debate is back. For years, it felt like the only thing Westminster talked about.

我亲历了这一切的核心,从保守党在2015年大选中的胜利,到该党当年在其竞选宣言中承诺在“2017年底前就我们是否留在欧盟举行一次非此即彼的全民公投”。然后有时任首相戴维·卡梅伦与欧盟的谈判,试图争取他认为更好的协议,接着就是2016年6月23日星期四举行的脱欧公投本身。

I have had a ringside seat at it all, from the Conservative election victory in 2015, with the party's promise in its manifesto that year to offer "a straight in-out referendum on our membership of the European Union by the end of 2017." Then there was the then Prime Minister David Cameron's negotiation with the European Union to try to secure what he saw as a better deal and then the referendum itself on Thursday, 23 June 2016.

你或许还记得,这仅仅是个开始,长达数年的争吵随后拉开帷幕。2017年和2019年的两次大选来来去去,经历了戴维·卡梅伦之后的两位首相——先是特雷莎·梅,然后是鲍里斯·约翰逊——英国才于2020年1月31日星期五23:00正式离开欧盟。

And that, you will remember, was merely the start, as years of wrangling began. Two general elections came and went in 2017 and 2019 and it took the two prime ministers after David Cameron, first Theresa May and then Boris Johnson, before the UK left the European Union at 23:00 on Friday, 31 January 2020.

难怪到了那个时候,几乎不论一个人对此持何种观点,大家都有强烈的愿望去谈论别的事情。任何别的事情。各政党都感受到了这种氛围,尽管如果你剥开表象,他们对欧盟的长期直觉依然存在,但在任何近期内,他们都没有长篇大论的欲望。

Little wonder perhaps that by that point, almost irrespective of someone's views on the topic, there was an appetite to talk about something else. Anything else. Political parties picked up that vibe and while their long standing instincts on the EU were there to see if you scratched the surface, there was minimal desire to extemporise about them any time soon.

随着安迪·伯恩罕(Andy Burnham)出任首相,这一切都变了,尽管他在入住唐宁街前几个月还曾发表过不同的言论。

With the arrival of Andy Burnham as prime minister, that has changed, despite what he said just a few months before he arrived in Downing Street.

他一直乐于反复倾向于一种论点,即现在是时候“正视脱欧弊大于利这一现实”以及“现状对英国而言还不够好”。上个月他在工党大会上首次提出了这一观点,现在他又在下议院再次提出了这一观点。伯恩罕正试图从两个方面阐述其观点。

He has been happy to repeatedly lean into an argument claiming that it is time to "face up to the reality that Brexit has done more harm than good" and "the status quo is not good enough for Britain." First he made this case at the Labour Party Conference last month and now he has made it again in the House of Commons. Burnham is attempting to make a two-pronged case.

首先,从短期来看,他希望在下个月底于布鲁塞尔举行的峰会上“深化”英国与欧盟的关系。他坚决主张,这种深化将符合工党在上届大选中作出的承诺,即英国将对关税同盟、单一市场和人员自由流动说不。

First, in the short term, he wants to "deepen" the UK's relationship with the EU at a summit in Brussels at the end of next month. He insists such a deepening would be within the promise made by Labour at the last general election that the UK would say no to the customs union, the single market and freedom of movement.

这就引出了他论点的第二部分,即从中期来看。工党在其下一份大选宣言中可能会承诺什么?首相两周前告诉过我,该宣言可能会承诺举行一次决定去留的全民公投。在下议院,无论你对脱欧持何种看法,他都试图让你放心。

Which brings us onto the second element of his case, in the medium term. What might Labour promise in its next general election manifesto? The prime minister told me a fortnight ago the manifesto could promise an in-out referendum. In the Commons, he sought to reassure you, whatever your view on Brexit.

他表示:“这个国家在下一个十年需要知道自己将走向何方。这里没有任何预设前提,正如我所说,英国公众将是任何决定的主宰。”批评人士反驳说,等一下,这十年前就已经由选民决定了。

"This country in the next decade needs to know where it's going. There are no assumptions here, and as I said, the British public will be the boss of whatever is decided," he said. Hang on, say critics, it was decided by voters a decade ago.

前脱欧大臣兼脱欧首席谈判代表弗罗斯特勋爵(Lord Frost)在《每日电讯报》上辩称:“他们权衡了各种论据并做出了决定。他们至少应得到政客们的支持来捍卫这一决定。”

"They weighed the arguments and made a decision. The least they are owed is politicians willing to defend it," argues Lord Frost, a former Brexit minister and chief Brexit negotiator in the Telegraph.

在11月20日星期五于布鲁塞尔举行的英欧峰会到来之前,接下来的五周的焦点是唐宁街所认为的在青年流动性、食品饮料以及能源方面的短期成果。

The focus of the next five weeks, ahead of a UK-EU Summit in Brussels on Friday 20 November, is what Downing Street sees as short term wins on youth mobility, food and drink, and energy.

安迪·伯恩罕希望提出这样一个论点:他所描绘的与布鲁塞尔建立理智、务实的关系深化,可以帮助减少非法移民并促进经济增长。

Andy Burnham hopes to make an argument that what he will portray as a sensible, pragmatic deepening of the relationship with Brussels can help cut illegal immigration and boost economic growth.

他试图挑衅保守党领袖凯米·巴德诺赫(Kemi Badenoch),因为她试图反对一个他认为能够促进经济增长的计划。她辩称,这有可能是在重炒昨天的争论,且几乎没有成功的希望。

He sought to goad the Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch for seeking to oppose a plan he thinks can contribute to growth. She argued it risked regurgitating yesterday's arguments with little prospect of success.

引人注目的是,他对政敌的挑衅甚至走得更远。他在播客节目《政治就是这样》(The Rest Is Politics)中表示,他在入住唐宁街后曾询问过俄罗斯是否干预了脱欧公投。

And, strikingly, his attempt at goading his opponents went further still. He told The Rest Is Politics podcast that upon arriving in Downing Street, he had asked if there was Russian interference in the Brexit referendum.

他声称:“我得到了一个明确的回答,是的,确实有过。”但他没有说明是谁提供了这个明确的回答,也没有说明支持这种所谓明确性的证据是什么。

"I've had a clear answer that, yes, there was," he claimed, without saying who provided that clear answer or what the evidence for that suggested clarity was.

在下议院,他的措辞听起来柔和了一些。他告诉议员们,认为俄罗斯没有试图进行干预是“不可想象的”。这一次,他在谈到所谓的干预企图时使用了双重否定。

In the Commons, his language appeared a little softer. He told MPs it was "inconceivable" to think that Russia did not try to interfere. A double negative deployed this time, about alleged attempts at interference.

他的政客对手已经开始反扑。英国改革党领袖奈杰尔·法拉奇(Nigel Farage)直言不讳——称首相为“骗子”。前首相鲍里斯·约翰逊补充说,他在担任外交大臣时曾提出过与安迪·勃恩罕相同的问题,“而他们的回答是,没有任何证据表明俄罗斯或其他任何大国有过任何成功干预2016年公投的行为”。于是,关于企图干预、干预与成功干预之间区别的辩论再次展开。

His political opponents were already pouncing. The Reform UK leader Nigel Farage was blunt – calling the prime minister "a liar." The former Prime Minister Boris Johnson added that he had asked the same question as Andy Burnham did when he became Foreign Secretary "and they replied that there was no evidence of any successful interference in the 2016 referendum, by Russia or any other power". And so a debate resumes about the difference between attempted interference, interference and successful interference.

但关键点在于:自英国离开欧盟以来,我们现在迎来了第一位愿意坚定不移地辩论脱欧的首相:它是否在起作用、它是如何起作用的、如何改进它,以及它是否已被证明是一场失败。

But the key point is this: for the first time since the UK left the European Union, we now have a prime minister who is willing to unflinchingly debate Brexit: whether it is working, how it is working, how to improve it, and if it's proved to be a failure.

通过这样做,他希望能够迎合公众情绪——民意调查表明,多数人有一种看法,即离开欧盟并没有像许多人希望的那样发展。

In so doing he hopes he can tap into public sentiment which opinion polls suggest a perception among a majority that leaving the European Union hasn't turned out how many might have hoped.

除此之外,他希望将近期可能支持自由民主党、英格兰和威尔士绿党以及苏格兰绿党、苏格兰民族党和威尔士党(Plaid Cymru)的广泛左翼亲欧派吸引到工党身边。从政府的角度来看,至少目前这就是其政治逻辑。

On top of this, he hopes to lure pro Europeans broadly on the Left who may recently have supported the Liberal Democrats, the Green parties of both England and Wales and Scotland, the Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru towards Labour. That is the political logic from the government's point of view, for now at least.

至于这一切将走向何方——好吧,这是个好问题。在未来几周、几个月甚至几年里,我们的政治辩论可能会带有一种“回到未来”的氛围。随着关于我们与最近邻居关系对话的恢复,会有一种熟悉的感觉。

And as for where all of this leads – well, good question. In the coming weeks, months and perhaps years, there may be a Back to the Future vibe to our political debate. A splash of familiarity, as a conversation about the relationship we have with our nearest neighbours resumes.