委内瑞拉反对派领袖称特朗普新选定的石油合作伙伴腐败不堪。随着与特朗普政府的关系日益紧张，玛丽亚·科里纳·马查多表示，自己“很快就会”重返委内瑞拉。这位流亡海外的反对派领袖本周在接受长篇采访时指出，华盛顿在委内瑞拉新选定的石油合作伙伴亚历杭德罗·贝坦库尔特涉嫌实施“令人发指的腐败行为”；倘若自己掌权，此人绝不可能成为合适的商业合作伙伴。
Venezuela’s Opposition Leader Calls Trump’s New Oil Partner Corrupt As ties with the Trump administration fray, María Corina Machado said her return to Venezuela would come “sooner than you would expect.”Venezuela’s exiled opposition leader, María Corina Machado, said in an extensive interview this week that Washington’s new oil partner in Venezuela, Alejandro Betancourt, was responsible for “obscene corruption” and would not be a viable business associate were she to take power.
这是马查多首次公开对贝坦库尔特发表评论。后者最近与特朗普政府达成了一项利润丰厚的协议，将获得对委内瑞拉约五分之一石油储量的控制权。
It was the first time that Ms. Machado had weighed in publicly on Mr. Betancourt, who recently entered into a lucrative deal with the Trump administration to control roughly a fifth of Venezuela’s oil reserves.
这份协议使得这位身陷多起腐败调查的富商贝坦库尔特，成为华盛顿对委内瑞拉战略的核心人物，也是特朗普政府试图将委内瑞拉改造为附庸国的关键一环。
The agreement put Mr. Betancourt, a wealthy businessman targeted by corruption investigations, at the heart of Washington’s Venezuela strategy and the Trump administration’s transformation of the country into an effective vassal state.
此次对话发生在数月之后——在此期间，美国政府始终对马查多保持疏远态度：今年1月，美方选择独裁者德尔西·罗德里格斯来领导委内瑞拉，而非马查多；同时还与贝坦库尔特这类饱受争议的人物达成了秘密协议。
The conversation with Ms. Machado took place after months in which the U.S. government has kept her at a distance — passing her over in favor of an autocratic leader, Delcy Rodríguez, to lead the country in January and striking closed-door deals with embattled figures like Mr. Betancourt.
据一家独立的委内瑞拉能源审计机构称，贝坦库尔特通过承包无需竞标的发电厂项目积累了巨额财富，在此过程中还存在向国家机构虚报费用的行为。
Mr. Betancourt made a fortune through no-bid contracts for power plants, which involved overbilling state entities, according to an independent Venezuelan energy auditor.
作为过去三年间一直领导反对派的前议员，马查多至今仍无法返回祖国。即便如此，美国对委内瑞拉仍拥有极大影响力，美国国务卿马尔科·鲁比奥也多次宣称美国的最终目标是推动委内瑞拉实现民主转型。
Ms. Machado, a former legislator who has led the opposition for the last three years, has not been allowed back into her country, even amid Washington’s enormous control over Venezuela and repeated statements from Secretary of State Marco Rubio that the ultimate goal is a democratic transition.
此次采访是在马查多暂时逗留的巴拿马进行的。她在采访中称，美国并未将她纳入当前委内瑞拉政府与反对派另一派别之间的谈判进程；相关谈判本周正在委内瑞拉首都加拉加斯举行。
In the interview, held in Panama, where Ms. Machado is staying temporarily, she said the United States had not included her in current negotiations between the Venezuelan government and a different faction of the opposition, which are taking place this week in Caracas, the capital.
她拒绝讨论她与卢比奥的现状关系，他们相识多年，也拒绝透露他们最近是否有过交谈。
She declined to discuss her current relationship with Mr. Rubio, whom she has known for years, or to say whether they had spoken recently.
国务院发言人表示，马查多女士的政党已受邀参加在加拉加斯的谈判。
A State Department spokeswoman said that Ms. Machado’s party had been invited to participate in the Caracas negotiations.
“美国不会协助反对派人士返回，”发言人说。“玛丽亚·科里纳有权随时返回她的国家。”一位要求匿名以描述私下讨论的政府官员表示，贝坦库尔的公司之所以被选中，是因为其成功的业绩记录。该官员表示，该协议将接受严格审计。
“The United States does not facilitate the return of opposition figures,” the spokeswoman said. “Maria Corina has every right to enter her country whenever she wants to return.”Mr. Betancourt’s company was chosen because of its successful track record, according to an administration official who requested anonymity to describe private discussions. The official said the deal would be subject to strict audits.
贝坦库尔先生和罗德里格斯女士的代表未能立即回应置评请求。贝坦库尔的发言人萨拉·乔拉基表示，这位商人从未在任何司法管辖区被指控犯罪。
Representatives for Mr. Betancourt and Ms. Rodríguez did not immediately respond to requests for comment. Sara Chouraqui, a spokeswoman for Mr. Betancourt, has said that the businessman has never been charged with a crime in any jurisdiction.
因滞留国外而感到沮丧，马查多女士誓言返回委内瑞拉，为未来的选举动员支持者。她说她将“比你预期的更早”到达，重申了她今年多次作出的承诺。
Frustrated that she is stuck abroad, Ms. Machado vowed to return to Venezuela and rally supporters for a future election. She said she would arrive “sooner than you would expect,” repeating a promise she has made several times this year.
彭博新闻社本周发布的一项民调显示，52%的受访者表示将在总统选举中支持马查多，而19%的人表示将支持罗德里格斯。
A poll Bloomberg News published this week said 52 percent of respondents would support Ms. Machado in a presidential election, while 19 percent would back Ms. Rodríguez.
当被问及为何特朗普政府希望她返回，考虑到让顺从的罗德里格斯上台可能带来的潜在好处时，马查多表示她相信特朗普政府最终希望看到民主。
Asked why the Trump administration would want her return, given the potential benefits of having a compliant Ms. Rodríguez in power, Ms. Machado said she believed the Trump administration ultimately wanted democracy.
“是的，目前正在达成一些协议，”她说，“但这只是我们在委内瑞拉实现安全、稳定和合法性之后将要达成的协议的一小部分。”《纽约时报》曾报道，委内瑞拉在6月份遭受毁灭性的双重地震袭击后，马查多女士与特朗普政府的关系达到紧张高点。马查多女士敦促政府帮助她返回委内瑞拉，但政府担心这会导致该国不稳定。
“Yes, some deals are being made now,” she said, “but it’s a fraction of what will be made once we have security, stability, and legitimacy in Venezuela.”The New York Times has reported that the relationship between Ms. Machado and the Trump administration reached a high-tension point after devastating twin earthquakes struck Venezuela in June. Ms. Machado pressed the administration to help her go back to Venezuela, but the administration feared it would destabilize the country.
在她的采访中，马查多女士还讨论了如果她赢得选举，她将如何处理重大问题。新签订的涉及石油和其他资源的协议的命运又将如何？
In her interview, Ms. Machado also discussed how she would handle major questions if she won an election. What about the fate of newly minted deals involving oil and other resources?
“我现在想非常明确地说，如果这些正在签署的合同、这些正在签署的协议符合委内瑞拉法律，它们将得到尊重，”她说。
“I want to be very clear now if these contracts that are being signed, these deals that are being signed, comply with Venezuelan law, they will be respected,” she said.
然而，贝坦库尔先生并不是一个严肃的合作伙伴，她补充道，他在未能修复国家电网的情况下，从能源合同中获利。她称他为“我们人民目前所遭受苦难的主要‘责任人’之一”。那么罗德里格斯女士的命运又将如何？她的政府被联合国和联邦检察官指控犯有重大侵犯人权罪行。
Mr. Betancourt, however, was not a serious partner, she added, having reaped benefits from energy contracts while failing to fix the country’s electric grid. She called him “one of the main ‘responsables’ for what our people are suffering right now.”And what about the fate of Ms. Rodríguez, whose government is accused by the United Nations and federal prosecutors of major human rights violations?
“在我们的宪法和国际条约中，有些罪行是不适用特赦或宽恕的，”马查多女士说。她拒绝透露罗德里格斯女士是否可能面临监禁。
“In our constitution and international treaties there are crimes that are not subject to amnesty or forgiveness,” Ms. Machado said. She declined to say whether Ms. Rodríguez could face prison time.
马查多女士表示，她设想成立一个独立的真相委员会，以收集人权侵犯受害者的证词并提供赔偿。
Ms. Machado said she envisioned creating an independent truth commission to gather the testimonies of victims of human rights abuses and grant reparations.
随后，由新法律赋予特殊管辖权的普通法院将审判并惩治这些罪行的责任人。
Then ordinary courts with special jurisdiction assigned by a new law would try and punish those responsible for the crimes.
“人们要求正义，”她说，“这完全是正当的。”那么罗德里格斯女士可能会怎样被说服离开，尤其是如果她害怕委内瑞拉的法院的话？
“People demand justice,” she said, “and that’s absolutely legitimate.”And how might Ms. Rodríguez be swayed to leave, especially if she fears the courts in Venezuela?
“嗯，确实有一些选择，”马查多女士说，“但美国目前正在对委内瑞拉政权的核心成员进行司法审判，这一事实已经清楚地表明了其他可能的出路是什么。”马查多女士是一位长期从事反对派活动的政治人士；三年前，她在初选中获胜后迅速声名鹊起，并在2024年的总统选举中动员了数百万委内瑞拉人支持她的政治运动。
“Well, there are options,” Ms. Machado said, “but certainly the fact that the U.S. currently has top members of the regime facing justice in the United States makes very clear what’s the alternative.”Ms. Machado, a longtime opposition member, rocketed to prominence three years ago after winning a primary, and then rallied millions of Venezuelans to vote for her movement in a 2024 presidential election.
尽管所有计票结果显示她支持的候选人获胜，但尼古拉斯·马杜罗总统仍宣布自己获胜。数千名委内瑞拉人走上街头抗议，政府军逮捕了2000多人，冲突中还有20多人丧生。
Despite collecting tally sheets showing that the candidate she backed had won, President Nicolás Maduro claimed victory. Thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets to protest, state forces arrested more than 2,000 people and over two dozen people died amid the unrest.
马查多女士被迫躲藏在国内，独自在秘密地点生活了超过一年。她在接受采访时提到，为躲避政府的追捕，她在那段时间里更换了14次藏身之处。后来她获得了诺贝尔和平奖，试图乘船前往颁奖典礼，但在途中受伤。
Ms. Machado went into hiding inside Venezuela, living alone in secret locations for more than a year. In the interview, she said she changed locations 14 times during that period to avoid state capture. Then she won the Nobel Peace Prize, escaping Venezuela by boat to try to make it to the ceremony, she has said, and was injured on the journey.
不久之后，她将诺贝尔奖颁给了特朗普先生——特朗普一直觊觎这个奖项。马查多女士曾向美国政府表示，她能够为委内瑞拉带来稳定。然而1月3日，特朗普政府派遣美军去逮捕马杜罗先生。
Soon after, she gave her Nobel Prize to Mr. Trump, who had coveted the prize for himself. Ms. Machado had pitched the administration on the idea that she represented stability for the country. Then on Jan. 3, the Trump administration sent U.S. forces to capture Mr. Maduro.
当天，特朗普发布了一条声明，称马查多在国内没有足够的支持来成为国家领导人；因此马杜罗的副总统罗德里格斯女士将接任临时总统，从而维持委内瑞拉的专制统治。
That day, Mr. Trump posted a message saying that Ms. Machado did not have enough support inside the country to become its leader. Instead, Mr. Maduro’s vice president, Ms. Rodríguez, would become the interim president, essentially providing continuity to Venezuela’s autocratic government.
“我和其他国家的人一样，也是在这一天才得知发生了什么，”马查多女士回忆道，“当时有人从委内瑞拉给我打电话。”目前马杜罗先生被关押在纽约的监狱里，面临贩毒和酷刑的指控。
“I learned as the rest of the people did,” Ms. Machado said of what happened on Jan. 3. “In real time, people calling me from Venezuela.”Mr. Maduro is in a New York prison facing drug trafficking and torture charges.
美国表示将接管委内瑞拉的财政事务，并计划分三个阶段实现这一目标：首先是稳定局势，其次是经济复苏，最后是向民主制度过渡。
The United States said it would take over Venezuela’s finances, and that change would happen in three phases: stabilization, economic recovery and transition to democracy.
特朗普此后一直表示，罗德里格斯“工作做得很好”。本周，美国解除了她兄弟的制裁，她的兄弟是立法机构的负责人。
Mr. Trump has said since then that Mr. Rodríguez has been “doing a great job.”This week the U.S. lifted sanctions on her brother, the head of the legislature.
在回顾三阶段计划时，马查多说：“我理解其中的逻辑和理由，”这样慢慢来。
Reflecting on the three-phase plan, Ms. Machado said: “I understand the logic and the rationale,” for going slowly.
但她继续说：“我相信这本来是可以做到的，当然可以，不需要她” — — 罗德里格斯 — — “因为她是犯罪体系的一部分。但事实如此，我们现在就处于这种境地。正如我之前所说，这对委内瑞拉人民的利益是让这件事成功。”马查多表示，她最近曾七次尝试进入委内瑞拉，其中包括6月地震之后的两次。她的所有尝试都以各种方式被阻止。有一次，她飞往库拉索的飞机在空中掉头返回，她说。库拉索是委内瑞拉附近的一个岛屿。
But, she continued, “I believe it could have been done, certainly, without her” — Ms. Rodríguez — “because she’s part of the criminal system. But it is what it is, and here’s where we are. And as I said before, it’s in the interest of the Venezuelan people that this works.”Ms. Machado said she has made seven recent attempts to enter Venezuela, including twice after the June earthquakes. All her attempts have been blocked in various ways. In one instance, her plane to Curaçao, an island not far from Venezuela, turned around midair, she said.
《华尔街日报》报道称，在此案中，负责库拉索外交事务的荷兰官员在得知美国官员不批准她返回后，撤回了她飞机降落的许可。本月，有人问鲁比奥美国是否在阻止马查多入境，他回答说：“我们从未要求任何人不让任何人在世界任何地方入境。”马查多正在艰难地走钢丝，既要努力保持在特朗普政府的好感之中，又要向委内瑞拉的支持者表明她心系他们的利益 — — 并且仍然与讨论息息相关。
The Wall Street Journal reported that in that case Dutch officials, who handle Curaçao’s foreign affairs, withdrew permission for her plane to land after learning that U.S. officials did not approve of her return. Asked this month if the U.S. was blocking Ms. Machado’s entry, Mr. Rubio said: “We’ve never asked anyone not to let anybody else in anywhere in the world.”Ms. Machado is walking a difficult line, trying to stay in the good graces of the Trump administration, while showing Venezuelan supporters that she has their interests in mind — and is still relevant to the conversation.
批评贝坦库尔可能会降低特朗普帮助她的可能性。但这在国内可能会得到良好反响。
Criticizing Mr. Betancourt might make it less likely that Mr. Trump will help her. But it could play well inside the country.
“委内瑞拉将获得自由，”她说。“我们会把孩子们带回家。我们将建立能够世代延续的民主制度，我们将实行开放市场，为国际投资提供无与伦比的条件，并使我们的国家成为整个地区稳定的来源。这一切都将实现。”日内瓦·格拉茨基从哥伦比亚波哥大参与了报道。
“Venezuela will be free,” she said. “We’ll bring our children back home. We will build democratic institutions that will last for generations to come, we will have open markets, that will offer unparalleled conditions for international investment and will turn our country into a source of stability for the whole region. That is going to happen.”Genevieve Glatsky contributed reporting from Bogotá, Colombia.
朱莉·图尔克维茨是《纽约时报》的安第斯地区分社社长，常驻哥伦比亚的波哥大，负责报道哥伦比亚、委内瑞拉、玻利维亚、厄瓜多尔和秘鲁的相关新闻。
Julie Turkewitz is the Andes Bureau Chief for The Times, based in Bogotá, Colombia, covering Colombia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru.