
国防部长吉多·克罗塞托告诉BBC,美国有可能延长俄罗斯的全面入侵,而不是帮助结束它。
Defence Minister Guido Crosetto tells the BBC the US risks prolonging Russia's full-scale invasion rather than helping to end it.
意大利国防部长表示,美国限制乌克兰用于抵御俄军袭击的卫星系统和情报的访问权限,是“完全错误的,是一个重大错误”。
By Sarah Rainsford Italy's defence minister has said it is a "complete mistake, a major mistake" for the US to limit access to satellite systems and intelligence used by Ukraine to defend itself against Russian attacks.
在接受BBC采访时,吉多·克罗塞托警告称,美国总统唐纳德·特朗普政府的任何此类举措“完全没有意义”,并且有可能延长俄罗斯的全面入侵,而不是帮助实现和平。
In a BBC interview, Guido Crosetto warned that any such move by US President Donald Trump's administration "makes absolutely no sense" and risked prolonging Russia's full-scale invasion rather than helping to bring peace.
美国官员表示,特朗普并未要求减慢美国向乌克兰提供的互联网速度,而这一速度对乌克兰的战争努力至关重要。特朗普还否认美国已停止向乌克兰分享即将到来的俄罗斯空袭的预警警报。克罗塞托的言论延续了意大利对美国日益尖锐的批评。
US officials have said Trump has not asked for the slowdown of internet speeds the US provides to Ukraine and which are vital for its war effort. Trump has also denied that the US has stopped sharing early-warning alerts of incoming Russian aerial attacks with Ukraine. Crosetto's comments continue Italy's sharpening criticism of the US.
本周早些时候,总理乔治亚·梅洛尼称特朗普与俄罗斯达成的柴油购买协议是“一个非常冒险的选择”,并表示这将“赋予俄罗斯合法性”,因为俄罗斯正在轰炸乌克兰的城市。
Earlier this week, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni called Trump's deal to buy diesel from Russia a "very risky choice", and said it would "grant Russia legitimacy" as it bombed cities in Ukraine.
特朗普同意了与弗拉基米尔·普京的这笔交易,并将燃料价格上涨归咎于基辅对俄罗斯炼油厂的袭击。
Trump agreed the deal with Vladimir Putin, blaming Kyiv's own attacks on Russian refineries for rising fuel prices.
曾被视为如此亲近美国总统以至于被称为“特朗普低语者”的梅洛尼表示,这一举措与让普京回到谈判桌的努力背道而驰。
Meloni, once considered so close to the US president she was dubbed a "Trump whisperer", said the move ran counter to efforts to bring Putin to the negotiating table.
“当普京相信自己陷入僵局,无法再前进时,和平才会到来,”她的国防部长在罗马的部长办公大楼接受BBC采访时说道。
"Peace will come when Putin is convinced there is a stalemate, that he cannot advance any further," her defence minister told the BBC at his ministry building in Rome.
克罗塞托是梅洛尼所领导的硬右翼政党“意大利兄弟党”的联合创始人之一,该党自2022年起领导右翼执政联盟,时间紧随俄罗斯全面战争爆发之后。
Crosetto was a co-founder of Meloni's hard-right Fratelli d'Italia party, which has led a right-wing government coalition since 2022, shortly after the start of Russia's full-scale war.
“如果[普京]看到乌克兰方面的弱点——而如果美国剥夺乌克兰的资源,那就会制造弱点——那么他就会相信自己能够获胜。于是他将继续战争,”克罗塞托警告道。“我认为这是完全错误的。”
"If [Putin] sees weakness on the Ukrainian side – and if the US deprives Ukraine of resources, that creates weakness – then he will believe he can win. So he will continue the war," Crosetto warned. "I think that is completely wrong."

尽管公众普遍持怀疑态度,梅洛尼的意大利政府自始至终一直是乌克兰的坚定盟友,提供了军事和人道主义援助。这些援助的具体细节一直被列为机密。
Despite widespread public scepticism, Meloni's Italian government has been a strong ally of Ukraine from the start, sending both military and humanitarian aid. The specifics of those deliveries have always been classified.
在我们的采访中,国防部长承诺意大利的军事支持将持续“只要这个政府仍在执政”,尽管他警告说,随着选举临近,让议会批准进一步的援助将变得“更加困难”。
In our interview, the defence minister vowed that Italian military support would continue "for as long as this government is in place", though he warned that getting parliament to approve further deliveries would be "more difficult" as elections approached.
投票必须在2027年底前进行,而目前的民意调查显示,一个新的极右翼政党“民族未来”领先于梅洛尼的所有联盟伙伴。
The vote has to take place by the end of 2027 and opinion polls currently put a new far-right party, Futuro Nazionale, ahead of all Meloni's coalition partners.
该党的领导人、前将军罗伯托·万纳奇公开同情俄罗斯,反对援助乌克兰,认为欧洲正在浪费金钱,因为俄罗斯军队“在地面上继续推进”。
That party's leader, former general Roberto Vannacci, is openly sympathetic to Russia and opposes aiding Ukraine, arguing that Europe is wasting its money as Russia's military "continues to advance" on the ground.
在托斯卡纳的一次最近活动中,他形容自己既“不亲普京也不亲俄”,而是“亲意大利”。
At a recent event in Tuscany, he described himself as "neither pro-Putin nor pro-Russian" but "pro-Italian".
克罗塞托对关于万纳奇的问题置之不理,包括他的观点是否代表了许多意大利人的看法,他说他有更多“严肃的事情需要处理”。但也许为了强调这种区别,他在俄罗斯问题上表态明确。
Crosetto brushed off questions about Vannacci, including on whether his views reflected those of many Italians, saying he had more "serious matters to deal with". But, perhaps to underline the difference, he was unequivocal on Russia.
“当一个国家用坦克越过另一个国家的边界,轰炸医院和学校,杀害平民,轰炸发电厂,并且已经这样做了四年,我只能将其描述为邪恶,”他说。
"When one state crosses another state's border with tanks, when it bombs hospitals and schools, kills civilians and bombs power plants, and has been doing so for four years, I can only describe that as evil," he said.
但意大利人,就像许多欧洲人一样,正看到价格上涨,这受到高昂能源成本的推动。
But Italians, like many Europeans, are seeing prices go up, driven by the high cost of energy.
周五在罗马的街头抗议中,有人投掷鞭炮,中学生抱怨资源被用于武器而非教育。
During street protests in Rome on Friday, where firecrackers were thrown, secondary school students complained that resources were being diverted to arms, instead of education.
一些人高喊:“我们想要更多的课堂,而不是更多的炸弹。”在意大利南部,卡车司机开始封锁道路,抗议燃油价格上涨。
Some chanted: "We want more classroom, not more bombs." In southern Italy, truckers have begun blocking roads complaining at the hike in fuel prices.
民意调查显示,意大利多数民众希望终止对乌克兰的军事援助。一项由Ixè研究所在九月进行的调查显示,仅有18%的受访者支持继续向乌克兰提供武器。
Polls here regularly show that a majority of Italians want an end to military aid for Ukraine. One, conducted for the Ixè institute in September, put support for continuing to supply arms at just 18%.
造成这种情况的原因有很多,既有长期存在的和平主义传统,也有与莫斯科保持紧密商业联系的历史。与波兰或波罗的海国家不同,意大利在地理上感到自己与危险相距较远。
There are many factors behind that, from a long-standing pacifist tradition to a history of strong business ties to Moscow. Unlike Poland or the Baltic states, Italy feels physically distant from the danger, too.
但国防部长还指责莫斯科正在开展一场积极的虚假信息运动——正如他所说,目标是“某些政治人物……以及削弱反俄政治氛围的叙事”。“某种程度上,他们正在左右公众舆论,”部长辩称。
But the defence minister also blamed an active campaign of disinformation by Moscow – targeting, he said, "certain political figures... and narratives to weaken the political climate against Russia". "In some way they shift public opinion," the minister argued.
“要向一个在加油站遇到困难的公民解释,我们目前不能对俄罗斯作出任何让步,这非常困难。但这是捍卫这位正在抱怨的公民未来的唯一途径。”与欧洲其他乌克兰盟国不同,意大利尚未遭遇重大破坏行为的针对性袭击。
"It's very hard to explain to a citizen who's having trouble at the petrol pump that we can't give any concessions to Russia right now. But that's the only way to defend the future of that very citizen who's complaining." Italy has not been targeted for major acts of sabotage, unlike other allies of Ukraine in Europe.
部长表示,八月份罗马郊外一个军火库的火灾并非人为纵火,而是“人为的愚蠢”。
The minister said a fire at an arms depot outside Rome in August was not arson, but "human stupidity".
克罗塞托还告诉我们,上个月有报道称俄罗斯计划从地中海的集装箱船上向意大利、法国和西班牙发动无人机袭击,但这一说法尚未得到证实。
A report last month that Russia was planning to launch drone attacks at Italy, France and Spain from the container ships in the Mediterranean was not proven, Crosetto also told us.
但他表示,与俄罗斯有关的网络攻击如今已成为日常——“每天有数百起”——并且他认为欧洲在应对方面表现得过于软弱。“如果不还击,你就无法赢得战争……”,部长说道。
But cyber-attacks, which he linked to Russia, were now routine - "there are hundreds every day" - and he believed Europe had been too weak in its response. "You can't win a war... if you don't fight back," the minister said.
此外,罗马的 Davide Ghiglione 也参与了报道。
With additional reporting from Rome by Davide Ghiglione.