
在莎拉·沙勒·克利法官近三十年主持破产案件的审理过程中,有些案件尤其令人痛心,她说 — — 比如2012年,一名73岁的妇女站在她面前,学生贷款余额超过584,000美元。
In Judge Sarah Sharer Curley's nearly three decades presiding over bankruptcy cases, some were especially painful to witness, she said — such as the 73-year-old woman who stood before her in 2012 with a student loan balance of more than $584,000.
这笔债务可以追溯到20世纪70年代,并在该妇女的公共部门职业生涯中持续增长,克利在她的新书《宽恕的代价:债务、破产与美国公平的未来》中写道。她“从未赚过很多钱”,克利说,到她寻求债务减免时,这名妇女正生活在贫困之中,仅靠社会保障金维持生计。即便如此,严格的破产法可能使学生贷款几乎无法被免除。克利是首位被任命为亚利桑那州联邦破产法院法官的女性,她说这是一个熟悉的故事。
The debt dated back to the 1970s and had grown throughout the woman's public sector career, Curley writes in her new book, " The Price of Forgiveness: Debt, Bankruptcy, and the Future of Fairness in America " She had "never made a lot of money," Curley said, and by the time she sought debt relief, the woman was living in poverty, with Social Security as her only income. Even so, strict bankruptcy laws can make it nearly impossible to discharge student loans Curley, the first woman appointed to the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the District of Arizona, said it was a familiar story. "We allow the financial markets to take innumerable risks, yet we refuse to allow an individual to be forgiven for choosing to pursue an advanced degree," Curley wrote. CNBC's No. 1 financial advisor takes a family-office approach Trump Accounts hit 70 million enrolled and can now accept stock donations Thousands of homeowners face ARM resets — and much higher payments Social Security Administration announces 3.6% cost-of-living adjustment for 2027 CNBC's Financial Advisor 100: Best financial advisors, top firms for 2026 ranked CNBC Elite Advisors: Top ultra-high net worth wealth management firms for 2026 Curley retired in 2014.
“我们允许金融市场承担无数风险,却拒绝允许个人因选择攻读高级学位而获得宽恕,”克利在书中写道。CNBC排名第一的财经顾问采用家族办公室模式特朗普账户注册用户达7000万,现在可接受股票捐赠数千房主面临可调整利率抵押贷款重置 — — 以及更高的还款额社会保障局宣布2027年生活成本调整幅度为3.6% CNBC财经顾问100榜单:2026年最佳财经顾问及顶尖机构排名CNBC精英顾问:2026年顶尖超高净值财富管理机构克利法官于2014年退休。
CNBC spoke with her this month about her new book, in which she describes a legal system that often fails to give indebted Americans the second chance it promises. In 2025, more than half a million personal bankruptcy cases were filed — an almost 50% rise from three years prior, according to the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts.
本月,CNBC采访了她,谈及她的新书,书中她描述了一个法律体系,该体系常常未能兑现对负债美国人的第二次机会的承诺。根据美国法院行政办公室的数据,2025年个人破产案件申请量超过50万起 — — 比三年前增长近50%。此访谈已为清晰起见进行了编辑和浓缩。“人们常会遇到许多意外事件”安妮·诺瓦:人们对申请破产者最常有什么误解?
The interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. 'People are subject to many unexpected events' Annie Nova: What do people get most wrong about those who file for bankruptcy? Sarah Sharer Curley: People assume that individuals who file for bankruptcy are committing fraud, trying to hide assets and cheating creditors.
Sarah Sharer Curley:人们认为申请破产的人是在实施欺诈,试图隐藏资产,欺骗债权人。事实完全不是如此。AN: 那么人们为什么最终会出现在你的法庭上?
Nothing could be further from the truth. AN: And so why did people end up in your court? People are subject to many unexpected events.
人们会面临许多意外事件。人们并不总能为下一次地震、飓风或自然灾害做好充分准备。但通常情况下,是有人失业。也可能是某种疾病变成慢性病,医疗费用在短时间内急剧上升。
People can't always plan adequately for the next earthquake, hurricane or natural disaster. But usually, it's someone losing a job. It could also be an illness that becomes chronic with medical costs that increase dramatically over a short period. Student loans is another area of concern.
学生贷款也是一个令人担忧的领域。大学对基础学位和研究生课程的收费越来越高。四年制医学院的费用可能超过40万美元。
Universities are charging more for basic degrees, as well as graduate programs. The cost of medical school over four years can be more than $400,000. AN: You write that many people who file for bankruptcy are not unemployed; they're just living paycheck to paycheck.
AN: 你写道,申请破产的人中有许多人并不是失业;他们只是靠工资过日子。这说明了我们经济和劳动力市场的什么情况?
What does this tell us about our economy and labor market? Despite the increase in wages that most economists tout, many people are working as independent contractors.
尽管大多数经济学家宣称工资有所增加,但许多人仍以独立承包商的身份工作。他们获得的福利很少,权利也很少。公司不对他们负责。
They receive few benefits and have few rights. The company is not responsible to them. Other individuals may be working for a company but find the wages or benefits are insufficient.
其他人可能受雇于公司,但发现工资或福利不足。许多人被迫为多个雇主工作,以满足每周的需求。虽然失业率可能较低,但就业质量也较低。“我觉得她很可信”AN: 你书中关于一位70多岁、联邦学生贷款余额达六位数的女性的故事真的让我印象深刻。她的情况是怎样的?
Many people are forced to work for several employers to meet their needs on a weekly basis. Although unemployment may be low, the quality of the employment is also low. 'I found her credible' AN: The story in your book about the woman in her 70s with the six-figure federal student loan balance really stood out to me. What happened in her case?
联邦政府不同意任何和解方案。我必须决定是否免除她的债务。但我必须遵循的判例法并不支持免除学生贷款债务。因此,我在给她减轻负担方面几乎没有灵活性。
The federal government would not agree to any settlement. I was the one who would have to decide whether her debt would be discharged or not. But the case law I had to follow was not in favor of discharging student loan debts. So, I didn't have a lot of flexibility in granting her relief.
然而,我给她记了七年在圣地亚哥县帮助问题青少年的公共服务时间,因为从事某些类型公共服务的人只需10年还款期。这意味着她只需再还三年债务。AN:哇。为什么联邦政府不同意与她达成任何和解?
However, I gave her credit for seven years of public service helping out troubled teens in San Diego County, since people who are in certain types of public service only have a 10-year repayment period. That meant that she'd need to repay the debt for just three more years. AN: Wow. Why wouldn't the federal government agree to any settlement with her?
联邦政府聘请律师事务所在破产法庭代表它,使律师事务所在如何进行方面拥有一定的自由裁量权。因此,一些律师事务所在其立场上很激进。
The federal government retains law firms to represent it in bankruptcy court, allowing the law firms to have a certain amount of discretion as to how to proceed. As a result, some law firms are aggressive in the positions that they take.
在该70多岁女性的案件中,律师事务所的律师不相信她所说的她没有资产且仅靠社会保障金生活。但律师事务所没有进行充分调查。我认为她是可信的。
In the case of the woman in her 70s, the law firm attorneys didn't believe her when she said she had no assets and was on Social Security. But the law firm did not do an adequate investigation. I found her credible.
在学生贷款上更难达成和解 AN:据报道,在乔·拜登总统的政府下,联邦学生贷款持有人在破产中免除债务变得更容易了。目前情况如何?
'Harder to reach a settlement' on student loans AN: Under President Joe Biden's administration, it reportedly became easier for federal student loan holders to get their debt discharged in bankruptcy. What's the current situation like?
美国教育部曾试图为无法偿还债务的学生贷款借款人制定还款计划。此外,教育部还有可能同意免除至少部分学生贷款。
There were attempts by the U.S. Department of Education to work out repayment plans for student loan borrowers who could not repay their debts. There was also the possibility that the Education Department would agree to forgive at least a portion of the student loans.
然而,一旦教育部在2025年被削弱,几乎没有员工能够通过所提供的项目之一批准债务修改。因此,与教育部达成和解变得更加困难。
However, once the Education Department was gutted in 2025, there were few, if any, employees who could approve the debt modifications through one of the offered programs. As a result, it has become harder to reach a settlement with the Department of Education.
AN:在你的书中,你将唐纳德·特朗普总统于2025年7月通过的“伟大而美好的法案”描述为对学生贷款借款人的“攻击”。是这样吗?你预期这部新法律会推高破产申请吗?
AN: In your book, you describe President Donald Trump's "big beautiful bill," which passed in July 2025, as an "attack" on student loan borrowers. How so? Do you expect the new law to drive up bankruptcy filings?
该法案为学生设定了不切实际的联邦贷款上限。因此,如果学生从不受联邦担保的私人金融机构贷款,该贷款通常会以更高的利率提供。
The bill created unrealistic federal loan caps for students. As a result, if a student takes out a loan from a private financial institution that's not federally guaranteed, that loan will often be provided at a higher interest rate.
假设学生需要30万美元的贷款才能上医学院。如果个人的信用评分较低,其利率可能升至16%,导致在10年内每月需支付5017美元,或累计支付利息302040美元。
Let's say the student needs a $300,000 loan to go to medical school. If the individual has a lower credit score, their interest rate may jump to 16%, leading to a payment of $5,017 per month over 10 years, or $302,040 in interest.
这些费用对大多数人来说是不可持续的。破产申请的数量很可能会增加。
These expenses are not sustainable for most individuals. The rate of bankruptcy filings will most likely increase.
许多破产申请人“觉得自己失败了” AN:您写道,医疗债务是人们申请破产的另一个主要原因。您能多说一点吗?
Many bankruptcy filers 'feel they have failed' AN: You write that medical debt is another major reason people need to file for bankruptcy. Can you say a little more about this?
在我面前出现的许多人患有慢性疾病。慢性疾病是一个问题,因为在破产案件开始时,个人只能免除他们所欠的债务。就像任何慢性疾病一样,债务会日复一日地累积多年。许多人在申请破产时会感到创伤。
There were many individuals who appeared before me who had chronic illnesses. Chronic diseases are a problem because the person can only discharge the debt they owe at the beginning of the bankruptcy case. As with any chronic illness, the debt continues to mount day by day for years to come. Many individuals are traumatized when they file a bankruptcy case.
前美国破产法院法官 AN:您写道,破产程序对大多数人来说是“曲折”的。具体是怎样的?
Former U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge AN: You write that the bankruptcy process is "tortuous" for most individuals. How so?
2005年对破产法进行了重大修改。如今人们需要跳过许多障碍才能获得救济。
Dramatic changes were made to the bankruptcy law in 2005. People are required to jump through many hoops to get relief now.
没有证据支持某些认为个人从事欺诈或每隔几个月就申请一次破产的观点。但债权人游说集团推动使破产法更有利于债权人。需要填写的众多表格以及需要参加的听证会通常会使个人长期处于压力状态。AN:申请破产对人们的情感有什么影响?
There was no evidence to support certain beliefs that individuals were engaged in fraud or filing bankruptcy cases every few months. But the creditor lobby pushed to make the bankruptcy law more pro-creditor. The many forms that need to be filled out and the hearings that need to be attended usually keep the individual in a perpetual state of stress. AN: How does filing for bankruptcy affect people emotionally?
许多人在申请破产案件时会感到创伤。他们曾相信,只要更加努力工作,就能解决债务问题。然而,当他们即将失去房屋、汽车或企业时,他们才转向破产。
Many individuals are traumatized when they file a bankruptcy case. They had believed if they just work harder, they could solve their debt problems. However, when they're about to lose their homes, their cars or their businesses, they turn to bankruptcy.
许多人将无法解决财务问题视为道德上的失败。他们觉得自己失败了。AN:您每天看到人们在无法承受的债务压力下挣扎,感觉如何?
Many see their inability to solve their financial problems as a moral failure. They feel they have failed. AN: What was it like for you, day after day, seeing people under the pressure of insurmountable debt?
有时,在听证会结束时,在我作出裁决之后,我会告诉当事人,根据现行法律,我无法为他们提供他们真正需要的帮助。我告诉他们,法律需要改变。我们对大型金融机构和企业提供了宽限,也是时候对个人也这样做了。
At times, at the end of the hearing, after I had rendered my decision, I would let the individual know that under the current law, I couldn't provide them with what they really needed. I told them that the law needed to be changed. We give a break to large financial institutions and corporations, and it's time that we do so for individuals, too.