
“烧得一干二净”:特朗普如何在可负担性辩论中落败,据阿比盖尔·斯潘伯勒(Abigail Spanberger)所言弗吉尼亚州州长阿比盖尔·斯潘伯勒(Abigail Spanberger)在弗吉尼亚州议会大厦首府里士满的礼宾办公室外合影。| Francis Chung/POLITICO 阿比盖尔·斯潘伯勒凭借对居住成本上涨的抨击,去年主导了弗吉尼亚州长选举,使她成为首批承诺解决可负担性危机的民主党候选人。她的胜利以及新泽西州州长米基·舍利(Mikie Sherrill)的胜利,被视为中间选举的民主党收获的先兆。
‘Scorched It All’: How Trump Lost the Affordability Debate, According to Abigail Spanberger Virginia Gov. Abigail Spanberger on how to deliver when it comes to cost of living. Virginia Gov. Abigail Spanberger stands for a portrait outside her ceremonial office at the Virginia State Capitol in Richmond, Virginia, on Oct. 9, 2026. | Francis Chung/POLITICO Abigail Spanberger rode furor over rising costs to dominate Virginia’s gubernatorial race last year — putting her among the first class of Democrats elected on the promise to tackle the affordability crisis. Her victory, along with Gov. Mikie Sherrill in New Jersey, was seen as a harbinger of Democratic gains in the midterms.
她熟悉“蓝潮”:斯潘伯勒是2018年因反对唐纳德·特朗普而被卷入众议院的众多议员之一。在华盛顿山庄任职期间,她树立了跨党派声誉,并在竞选州长时加以利用。作为首任州长,斯潘伯勒表示,她在首年就实现了可负担性议程的所有优先事项,包括限制胰岛素自付费用上限以及激励建设可负担住房。
She’s familiar with blue waves: Spanberger was part of the class of lawmakers swept into the House in 2018 on a similar anti-Donald Trump backlash. While serving on Capitol Hill she carved out a bipartisan reputation that she leveraged during her gubernatorial run. In her first year as governor, Spanberger says she knocked out every priority of her affordability agenda, from capping out-of-pocket insulin costs to incentivizing affordable housing construction.
在即将到来的选举前夜,似乎全国所有民主党人都采用了降低成本的竞选话语,斯潘伯勒回顾了她在弗吉尼亚州的成就,并向即将进入国会且可能拥有民主党多数的新任议员提供建议。但她也指责特朗普政府因其对伊朗的战争导致物价上涨,阻碍了州一级可行的政策。她还解释了为何她认为数据中心争论将长期存在,以及可负担性将如何影响2028年总统大选。本次对话已进行删减和整理。
On the eve of an election where it seems like every Democrat nationwide has adopted similar cost-lowering messaging, Spanberger reflects on what she accomplished in Virginia and offers some advice for an incoming Congress with a likely Democratic majority. But she blames the Trump administration for sabotaging what’s possible at the state level with its war in Iran driving up prices. She also explains why she thinks the data center debate is here to stay — and how affordability will play into the 2028 presidential election. This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
你和纽约市市长佐尔罕·马马达尼(Zohran Mamdani)都以可负担性为竞选主题。你会说,是什么因素将温和派和左翼民主党人在这一议题上统一?
Both you and New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani ran on affordability. What would you say it is that unites both centrist and leftist Democrats on this issue?
这是一个关于全国各地选民和选区居民之间的共同点的问题,以及他们所感受到的艰辛、挑战和困难。在2025年筹备我的竞选活动时,我直接回应了我在竞选途中所听到的内容。即使是在竞选州长的最初阶段,毫无疑问,重点是支持弗吉尼亚州人民的经济发展和加强我们的学校,但我的信息传达,坦率地说更重要的是,我的关于可负担性的政策提议,随着可负担性问题日益成为一个绝对突出的议题,变得越来越受到关注——无论我走到弗吉尼亚州的哪里,人们都在说同一件事的不同变体。
It’s a question of what’s the commonality between constituents and voters in any place in the country and the hardships, challenges, difficulties that they’re feeling. In terms of building out my campaign in 2025, it was directly responsive to the things that I heard along the campaign trail. Even in the earliest of my campaign days for governor, certainly the focus was on supporting Virginians in our economy and strengthening our schools, but my messaging and, frankly, more importantly, my policy proposals on affordability became more and more of a focus as issues of affordability became more and more of an absolutely salient issue that, no matter where I went in Virginia, people were saying the same variation of the same thing.
民主党两翼之间的这种团结,在民主党不得不执政时,是否必然会瓦解?
Will that unity between the two wings of the party inevitably break down once Democrats have to govern?
我将略微否定这个问题的前提。当我上任并通过了我们100%的弗吉尼亚州可负担议程时,75%是通过两党立法通过的。我们正朝着正确的方向前进,当然是在住房可负担性、能源和医疗保健方面——这是我们可负担性提议的三大支柱。要实现非常清晰、立即的、立即的影响是非常困难的。但在某些地方,你可以实现立即的、立即的影响。
I’m slightly going to reject the premise of the question. When I got into office and passed 100% of our Affordable Virginia agenda, 75% was passed with bipartisan legislation. We’re moving in the right direction, certainly on issues of housing affordability, energy and healthcare, which are the three pillars of our affordability proposal. It is very difficult to have very clear, immediate, immediate impact. There are certain places where you can have immediate, immediate impact.
但对于任何在2026年参选的人,任何将在2027年宣誓就职进入国会的人来说,他们的首要任务必须是回应选举他们并由他们服务的人民。其中一些将是聚焦于可负担性的立法政策。坦率地说,显然其中一些将是针对推高成本的因素:贸易战、关税、对伊朗的战争以及它对燃油成本的影响。当然,H.R. 1所导致的成本上升、医疗费用上涨,或者对许多人而言,取消医疗保健——这会以相当大的方式推高成本。
But for anybody who’s running in 2026, anyone who’s going to get sworn into Congress in 2027, their priority has to be on being responsive to the people that elected them and that they serve. Some of that will be legislative policy focused on affordability. And frankly, presumably, some of it will be addressing the things that are driving up costs: trade wars, tariffs, the war with Iran and what that’s done to fuel costs. Certainly H.R. 1, what that has done to driving up costs, driving up health care costs or, for many people, eliminating health care — which drives up costs in a substantial way.
因此,如果他们当选,他们需要做出回应并努力取得成果。在立法方面,当然会有挑战,因为仍会有特朗普总统。但他们必须在所做的每一件事、每一天中,展示他们正在回应选民的需求。无论当选的是谁,如果他们是民主党人并且这样做,他们将推动有利于选民的事情向前发展,即使这种好处可能不会立即显现。
So if they are elected, they need to be responsive and work to deliver results. On the legislative front, of course, there will be challenges, because there will still be a President Trump. But to demonstrate in everything they do, every single day, that they are being responsive to the needs of their constituents. No matter who the person elected is, if they’re a Democrat who’s doing that, they will be moving things forward to the benefit of their constituents, even if that benefit may not be immediate, immediate.
你以巨大优势当选,许多弗吉尼亚人将其解读为授权你在可负担性问题上大刀阔斧、追求许多基层人士一直在呼吁的大胆政策。你觉得你是否把这些政治资本用在了正确的事情上?
You were elected by a huge margin, and many Virginians interpreted that as a mandate to go big on affordability and pursue bold policies that many in the base have been clamoring for. Do you feel like you spent that political capital on the right things?
我实现了我整个可负担弗吉尼亚议程。我们正在州政府机构内部工作,为H.R. 1的持续影响做好准备,而H.R. 1当然正日益恶化。因此,我认为我已经用掉了我的政治资本。虽然我会说,在我们所做的法案和工作中,围绕我通过弗吉尼亚州议会倡导的优先事项和法案建立联盟,实际上是一件相当直接的事情。
I delivered my entire affordable Virginia agenda. We’re working within our state agencies to be prepared for the kind of ongoing impacts of H.R. 1, which of course is just getting worse and worse. So I think I spent my political capital. Although I will say that, on the bills and the work that we’ve done, it was a pretty straightforward endeavor to build coalitions around the priorities and the bills that I championed through the General Assembly.
您在解决可负担性问题时遇到的最大障碍是什么?这些经验又将如何影响您对11月之后即将进入国会、需要从修辞转向行动的民主党人的建议?
What have been the biggest obstacles you faced in addressing the affordability issue, and how does that inform any advice that you’d give Democrats after November who are going to need to make this leap from rhetoric to action?
《H.R.1》、与伊朗的战争、与加拿大的贸易战以及糟糕的关税政策。这些是我们在弗吉尼亚州面临的最大逆风,我认为,全国大多数州也正面临类似挑战。
H.R. 1, the war with Iran, trade wars with Canada and horrible tariff policies. Those are the biggest headwinds that we’re facing in Virginia, and I think arguably most states across the country are facing.
当您试图增加住房供应时,却发现弗吉尼亚州的建筑劳动力因激进的移民政策而急剧下降——这些政策并非针对“罪犯和最恶劣的罪犯”,而是针对那些本来就在弗吉尼亚州建房、从事建筑工作的人——这造成了真正的障碍。
When you’re trying to increase housing supply, yet in Virginia we’re seeing our construction workforce plummet because of aggressive immigration tactics — not targeting “criminals and the worst of the worst,” but targeting people who are otherwise building homes and working on construction in Virginia — that creates a real impediment.
当农业是您州的第一大私营产业时,该产业的大部分由小型家庭农场组成,而最初的贸易战推高了投入成本。
When agriculture is your state’s number-one private industry. The majority of that industry is comprised of smaller family farms, and initial tariff wars drive up input costs.
随后,伊朗战争导致燃料价格飙升,接着总统又对您州的第一大农业贸易伙伴加拿大发动贸易战。这些都是逆风。
Then the war with Iran puts fuel prices through the roof, and then the president starts the trade war with your number-one agricultural trading partner, Canada. Those are all headwinds.
目前,我们不得不动用州资金来减轻一些影响。但仅仅从长远来看,州资金将不足以抵消所有后果。因此,对于即将进入国会的任何人来说,他们社区所受负面影响的核心在于一些前任曾支持的糟糕联邦政策,此外还需要重大监督,理想情况下应有一条可行的路径来推动逆转。
Right now we’re having to spend state money to mitigate some of the impacts. And just simply into the future there will not be enough state money to offset all of the outcomes. And so, for anyone who’s going to Congress, central to the things that are negatively impacting their communities are the bad federal policies that some of their predecessors would have voted for, and other things that require significant oversight and ideally a path toward working to reverse.
逆转《H.R.1》造成的一些最大危害。我不确定这是否能够通过,以及总统是否会签署这样的法案,但他们需要做好准备,随时具备在未来推动这一议程的能力。
Reversing some of the greatest harms of H.R. 1. I’m not sure if that will get through, and if the president would sign such a thing, but they need to be poised and ready to be able to move on that into the future.
他们需要保持镇定并做好准备,真正行使与伊朗战争相关的国会权力。这对可负担性有重大影响。他们需要在与混乱贸易政策相关的问题上行使宪法赋予的权力,因为这对于平息部分混乱至关重要。这一直是成本的主要驱动力。
They need to be poised and ready to actually assert congressional authority as it relates to the war with Iran. That has major impacts on affordability. They need to assert their constitutional power on issues related to chaotic trade policy, because that’s going to be essential to getting some of the chaos tamped down. That’s been a primary driver of costs.
可负担性仅仅是指降低价格,还是你认为它也应涉及解决工资差距?
Is affordability just about bringing prices down, or do you believe it should also involve addressing wage disparities?
它可以包含多方面内容。例如在弗吉尼亚州,我们提高了最低工资。我们推动通过了一项要求工资透明的立法,意味着工作岗位必须列出该职位提供的薪资范围。雇主不能询问你的过往工作经历。我在确保你实际获得应得报酬方面做了大量工作。令人震惊的是,我们首次通过了真正有力的工资保护和反工资盗窃法律。
It can be all things. Notably in Virginia, we raised the minimum wage. We pushed through legislation that requires wage transparency, meaning that jobs have to list the pay range for what a job would be offering. An employer can’t ask you for your prior employment history. I have done a lot on the issues of making sure you’re actually getting paid what you’re worth. And we’ve passed, shockingly for the first time, real strong wage protections and anti-wage theft.
弗吉尼亚州此前缺乏实际执行工资盗窃法律的手段,因此我们在此基础上推进了相关工作。所以是的,这是一个必不可少的组成部分,因为如果你的老板在窃取你的工资,那么在你面对其他地方高昂价格时,这只会雪上加霜。
We haven’t had the means by which to actually enforce wage theft laws in Virginia, and so we’ve moved forward with that. So yes, it is an essential element of it, because if your boss is stealing your wages, then that only adds insult to injury when you’re contending with high prices everywhere else.
左翼一些人认为,如果民主党人真的能在经济问题上为人民做出贡献,他们就不需要在文化问题上采取温和立场。你对此有什么看法?
Some on the left argue that if Democrats can really deliver for people on the economy, they don’t need to moderate on cultural issues. What’s your take on that?
我不明白他们所说的“在文化问题上温和”具体指什么。以跨性别议题为例,他们指的是不采纳共和党在体育领域对跨性别儿童的某些立场,而是坚持该党过去一直持有的立场。
I don’t know what they mean on “moderate on cultural issues.”On trans issues, for example, not adopting some of the Republican lines around trans kids in sports and holding firm to the positions that the party has had in the past.
我建议您回顾我被指出为不向共和党攻击屈服的最清晰例子的所有时刻。我认为您应坚持原则,奋力战斗并取得胜利。我被描述为温和派的这种二元对立 — — 我会查看我在司法问题、LGBTQ议题以及堕胎权方面的记录,因为我愿意将这些记录与任何人的记录进行比较。
I would urge you to look at all the times that I’ve been noted as being the clearest example of how you don’t cede to Republican attacks. So I think you abide by your principles, you fight ferociously and you win. This whole binary where I get cast as a moderate — I would look at my record on justice issues, LGBTQ record, my abortion-rights record, because I will put it up against anybody’s.
回到国会,您提到了若干您认为民主党应在联邦层面解决的问题。但您认为,如果民主党明年重新夺回一院或两院,应首要做什么来应对成本问题?
Back to Congress, you’ve named a number of problems that, at the federal level, you think Democrats should address. But what do you think is the first thing a Democratic Congress should do to address costs if they retake one or both chambers next year?
他们应明确阐述问题,并为废除或废除H.R.1中最恶劣的条款铺平道路,主张国会对伊朗战争以及贸易和关税政策拥有权威。当人们在竞选时宣称“伊朗战争正在推高成本”时,这一信息正在产生共鸣,因为它是事实。因此,随后应明确国会的权威。这并非晦涩难懂。国会拥有宣战权。就战争权而言,国会当然承担着宪法赋予的责任。但同时,我们也在反对一个政府,该政府正草率且鲁莽地不仅将我们的国家置于这一危险的国家安全境地,还在推高成本。
It’s being very clear about outlining the problem and papering the case toward repealing or repealing the worst of the elements of H.R. 1, asserting congressional authority over the war with Iran and trade and tariff policies. When people are campaigning on “the war with Iran is driving up costs,” that message is resonating because it is true. So then, make clear congressional authority. It isn’t esoteric. Congress has the power to declare war. It is Congress that has the responsibility, certainly constitutionally, as it relates to war powers. But also we are pushing back against an administration that is haphazardly and recklessly not only putting our country in this perilous national security space, but also driving up costs.
如果他们能够行使权力,他们能够做到的一部分就是非常、非常明确地表明他们正在进行反击、开展监督。你可以推动良好的住房政策,但如果你无法以合理价格获得柴油燃料,从而在全国范围内推动住房供应,以及全国范围内的建筑材料供应,而且由于一项激进的移民政策导致劳动力不足——正如总统所说,这项政策并不是针对“罪犯”等人群——那么所有的政策都必须伴随着其他方面的行动:他们必须站出来、展示、发声,并站出来反对这一政府的鲁莽行为。
Part of what they will be able to do if they utilize their authority is make very, very clear that they’re pushing back, conducting oversight. You can put good housing policy through, but if you can’t get the diesel fuel at a reasonable price to actually push housing supply across the country, and the construction materials across the country, and if the workforce isn’t there because of an aggressive immigration policy that is not going after, as the president said, “criminals,” et cetera. All the policy has to come with the other pieces where they stand up and demonstrate and speak to and stand up against the recklessness of this administration.
你认为民主党是否可能在厨房餐桌议题上与特朗普白宫进行富有成效的合作,还是这种关系已经破裂得太厉害?
Do you think there’s a world where Democrats can productively work with the Trump White House on these kitchen-table issues, or is the relationship there too broken?
我想说,永远不要说永远。但这些痛苦之所以被如此深切地感受到,是因为总统的标志性政策理想是削减医疗保健,危及农村卫生诊所和医院,使得更少的人能够凭借联邦支持的学生贷款进入医学院或护理学院——同时,他却为最富有的美国人提供了巨额减税。他的政策正在火上浇油。
I would say never say never. But the reason that these pains are felt so severely is because the president’s signature policy ideal was to cut health care, imperil rural health clinics and hospitals, make it so that fewer people can go to medical school or nursing school with federally backed student loans — while giving major tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans. His policies are adding fuel to the fire.

如果存在民主党国会能够与特朗普政府合作的领域,你知道,一切皆有可能。但这就像在焦土上努力推动某件事向前发展,而事实上,正是他将一切都烧成了焦土。
If there are places where a Democratic Congress could work with the Trump administration, you know, anything is possible. But it is like working to move something forward on scorched earth when, in fact, he’s the one who scorched it all.
民主党在2028年应该如何谈论可负担性?你认为这一话题的下一个前沿是什么?我很好奇,你是否预计数据中心将继续在这些讨论中占据非常核心的位置。
How should Democrats talk about affordability in ’28? What do you think is the next front of that conversation? And I’m curious if you anticipate that data centers will continue to be very central to those conversations.
我想是的。我认为未来相关的讨论很可能会围绕多个层面展开。毫无疑问,人们对自然资源和能源消耗的担忧会成为重点议题。与此相关的还有对人工智能的担忧——因为在国内一些地区,我们已经看到了极其严重的局部污染现象:柴油发电机整日运转,向空气中排放大量污染物。我认为所有这些最恶劣的滥用行为与不良做法都会被置于公众关注的焦点。因此,我确实认为数据中心将在相关讨论中发挥重要作用。
I think so. I think the conversation into the future will likely get distilled into different elements. Certainly, and correctly so, concerns about natural resources, concerns about energy consumption. Relatedly, concerns about AI, because in some parts in the country we have seen absolutely outrageous examples of heavily localized pollution and diesel generators going all day long, pumping localized pollutants into the air. All of these examples of the worst abuses and practices, I think, will be brought to the forefront. And so, yes, I do think data centers will be essential to the conversation.
我认为未来的讨论会涉及多个范畴:到2028年时,民众对于物价可负担性有何期望?我真心希望11月大选之后局势能逐步稳定,物价可负担性也不再是人们最关心的核心问题。可惜的是,基于我前面提到的种种原因——其中最关键的一点就是唐纳德·特朗普仍会担任总统——我认为这种情况不太可能发生。所以,我们仍会不断尝试各种手段来推动局势改善。
I think that the conversation will fall into multiple categories of: What are people’s visions moving forward on affordability into ’28? I mean, I would love to live in a world where we have these elections in November, things start to get under control, and affordability is less and less of a central issue and focus. Unfortunately, for all of the reasons that I already mentioned — chief among them, that Donald Trump will still be president — I assess that that’s not likely the case. And so it’s going to be a continued drumbeat of all of the ways, like every lever that we’re trying to pull on to move things forward.
我认为2028年大选的一个核心议题就是各项立法优先事项,这些都需要未来的总统予以签署。尤其是那些旨在纠正《H.R.1法案》所带来的诸多负面影响的举措。
I do think that a clear element of the 2028 election will be all of the legislative priorities that will need to be signed by a future president who would be willing to sign them.
最后一个问题:外界有很多关于您个人政治抱负的猜测。您是否有意竞选总统呢?我目前从事着自己热爱的工作。
Especially things that would undo some of the worst harms of H.R. 1. Last question. There’s been plenty of speculation about your own national ambitions. Do you have any interest in running for president?
不过您的任期终有结束之时,并非永远如此。您之后有什么打算呢?
I have a job that I love. But there’s an end to your term. It’s not forever. What’s next for you?
弗吉尼亚州的一个好处就是:我们州规定州长只能连任一届,全美仅此一例。这样一来,在我任期内就没人能说:“哎呀,下次竞选连任时我们必须把某事作为优先事项……”我只需去做自己认为对的事、符合自己信念的事,至于未来会有哪些机遇,那就走着瞧吧。不过对现在的我来说,找份工作、把书单上的书读完才是2030年之后的事。
The good thing about the Virginia reality, that we have a one-term governor, the only state in the nation, is that at no point during my governorship can anyone say, “Oh, but in your reelect, we need to prioritize…” I just get to do what I believe in, what I think is right, and we’ll see what opportunities exist in the future. But that’s a post-2030 problem for me — to find a job and get through my reading list.
