加拉加斯——当迪诺拉·菲格拉（Dinorah Figuera）首次坐下来就恢复这里民主机构的问题进行会谈时，她面对的是那个将她驱逐流亡的独裁政权中最具权势的人物之一。“我不怕你，”她回忆当时对豪尔赫·罗德里格斯（Jorge Rodríguez）说的话，“特别是还有美国支持我。”豪尔赫·罗德里格斯是前领导人尼古拉斯·马杜罗（Nicolás Maduro）的长期忠随、委内瑞拉议会负责人，也是临时总统德尔西·罗德里格斯（Delcy Rodríguez）的兄弟。
CARACAS—When Dinorah Figuera first sat down for talks on restoring democratic institutions here, she faced one of the most powerful figures in the autocratic regime that drove her into exile.“I am not afraid of you,” she said she told Jorge Rodríguez, a longtime loyalist of former leader Nicolás Maduro who heads Venezuela’s legislature and brother of interim President Delcy Rodríguez. “Especially with the United States backing me.”Six months ago, the 65-year-old doctor and former Venezuelan opposition lawmaker was caring for elderly people in Spain to make ends meet.
六个月前，这位65岁的医生兼委内瑞拉前反对派议员还在西班牙照顾老人以维持生计。她在国内的住宅被查封，她被指控叛国，一名亲密的政治盟友在政府羁押期间遭受酷刑身亡。随后，一名美国国务院高级官员打电话来，招募这位鲜为人知的反对派领袖执行一项看似不可能的任务：返回委内瑞拉，与那些将她驱逐出境的人就民主转型进行谈判。
Her house back home had been seized, she had been accused of treason, and a close political ally had been tortured and killed in government custody. Then a senior State Department official called to enlist the little-known opposition leader for an unlikely assignment: return to Venezuela to negotiate a democratic transition with the same people who had driven her from the country.“No one wanted to sit down with these people, no one,” Figuera said in an interview with a small group of reporters in Caracas, where a third round of talks concluded this week.
“没有人愿意和这些人坐下来，没有人，”菲格拉在加拉加斯对一小群记者采访时说。本周，第三轮会谈在加拉加斯结束。“甚至连‘和解’这个词在这个国家都很难说出口——难到我直到一周前才敢说出来。”
“Even the word ‘reconciliation’ was difficult to say in this country—so difficult that I only dared to say it a week ago.”
双方已朝着政治和司法改革迈出了初步步伐。政府放宽了对独立媒体的一些限制，并同意审议限制政治权利的法律。尽管他们尚未就总统选举的时间表达成一致，但菲格拉指望华盛顿利用其对前马杜罗官员的强大影响力来确保举行自由投票。
The two sides have taken initial steps toward political and judicial reforms. The government has eased some restrictions on independent media and agreed to review laws limiting political rights. While they have yet to agree on a timetable for presidential elections, Figuera is counting on Washington to use its significant leverage over former Maduro officials to secure a free vote.“We know that what Venezuelans want is elections,” said Figuera, who headed the opposition-controlled National Assembly elected in 2015, which Washington still recognizes as the country’s last freely elected legislature.
“我们知道委内瑞拉人想要的是选举，”菲格拉说。她曾领导2015年选出的反对派控制的国民议会，华盛顿至今仍承认该议会是该国最后一次自由选举产生的立法机构。“但我们一直在努力向民众解释这张路线图。”德尔西·罗德里格斯是在美军于1月俘获马杜罗后接权上台的。
“But we’ve struggled to explain this road map to people.”Delcy Rodríguez, who took over after U.S. forces captured Maduro in a Jan. 3 raid, has her own reasons to believe that President Trump is on her side.
3（此处为原文序号保留），她有自己的理由相信总统特朗普站在她这一边。美国总统对她赞不绝口，称她“备受尊敬”且是一个“非常好的人”，并与她微笑着合影，这帮助这位马杜罗的前副手转型为委内瑞拉国际社会承认的新领袖。美国还与她的政府达成了广泛的石油协议，同时解除对她和其他高级官员的制裁，扭转了多年来试图孤立他们的努力。尽管特朗普表示委内瑞拉最终将举行选举，但他已经明确表示，他不急于看到这一天的到来。
The U.S. president has effusively praised her as “highly respected” and a “wonderful person” and posed with her for smiling photos, helping transform Maduro’s former deputy into Venezuela’s internationally recognized new leader. The U.S. has also struck sweeping oil agreements with her government while lifting sanctions on her and other top officials, reversing years of efforts to isolate them. And while Trump says Venezuela will eventually hold elections, he has made clear he is in no rush to see that happen.
这些相互冲突的优先事项凸显了特朗普政府在不解散委内瑞拉现有政府的情况下重塑该国这一试验所面临的挑战。美国迅速采取行动，与那些最终可能通过谈判交出权力的同一批马杜罗忠诚派确保了石油交易，并深化了外交和安全关系。菲格拉表示，她对国务卿马尔科·鲁比奥的支持充满信心，她本月早些时候在华盛顿会见了鲁比奥。
These competing priorities underscore the challenges of the Trump administration’s experiment to remake Venezuela without dismantling its existing government. It has moved quickly to secure oil deals and deepen diplomatic and security ties with the same Maduro loyalists who could eventually negotiate their way out of power. Figuera says she is confident in the backing of Secretary of State Marco Rubio, whom she met earlier this month in Washington.
她表示，当豪尔赫·罗德里格斯称委内瑞拉当局正忙于地震救援而无暇讨论今夏的政治改革时，美国官员进行了干预。“在三天之内，他就不得不重新回到谈判桌前，”菲格拉说。
When Jorge Rodríguez said Venezuelan authorities were too consumed with earthquake relief to discuss political reforms this summer, U.S. officials intervened, she said.“Within three days, he had to sit back down at the table,” says Figuera.U.S. officials say they are confident the transition talks—set for a fourth round in November—are producing results, and say that their cooperation with the interim government is laying the groundwork for eventual elections.
美国官员表示，他们对定于11月举行的第四轮过渡谈判正在产生结果充满信心，并表示他们与临时政府的合作正在为最终的举行选举奠定基础。一名负责委内瑞拉事务的美国高级官员表示，举行自由公正选举的最终目标“已经融入其中”。这些官员坚称，这一进程“完全由委内瑞拉主导”，美国则在“促进和陪同这一进程”。这位美国国务院高级官员表示，支持内容包括支付反对派代表团的差旅费、酒店住宿费和日常津贴。但华盛顿远非一个被动的参与者。
The ultimate goal of holding a free and fair vote is “baked into this,” a senior U.S. official working in Venezuela said. The officials insisted the process is “purely Venezuelan-led” with the U.S. “facilitating and accompanying the process.”The support includes covering the opposition delegation’s travel, hotel accommodations, and per diem expenses, the senior State Department official said. But Washington is far from a passive participant.
特朗普政府官员帮助设计了谈判框架，并招募菲格拉从流亡中返回以领导反对派代表团。据反对派领导人称，当谈判遇到阻力时，美国官员进行了干预。
Trump officials helped design the negotiating framework and recruited Figuera to come back from exile to lead the opposition delegation. U.S. officials have intervened when talks encounter resistance, according to opposition leaders.
在菲格拉身上，美国官员找到了一位愿意接受特朗普委内瑞拉计划核心艰难妥协的反对派谈判代表。虽然她承认美国让罗德里格斯继续掌权的决定“对我们所有人都犹如一个打击”，但她表示她理解为什么这是必要的，并援引了反对派对军方和其他政府机构缺乏控制的事实。
In Figuera, U.S. officials found an opposition negotiator willing to accept the difficult compromises at the center of Trump’s plan for Venezuela. While she admits the American decision to keep Rodríguez in power “was a shock to all of us,” she says she understands why it was necessary, citing the opposition’s lack of control over the military and other government institutions.
这不是一个受欢迎的立场。委内瑞拉民调机构“巨量分析”上个月发现，超过百分之八十的受访者不信任这些谈判。相似比例的受访者表示，他们不指望从谈判中受益。本周，菲格拉在总统府亲自会见了德尔西·罗德里格斯，这次会面在国家电视台播出，招致了一些反对派人士的批评，他们称这正中政府下怀。菲格拉表示，她也逐渐理解了华盛顿与亚历杭德罗·贝坦科尔等人物合作的决定——后者是美国选定的一项重大石油交易的合作伙伴。
It isn’t a popular position to hold. The Venezuelan pollster Meganalisis last month found that more than 80% of respondents distrusted the talks. A similar percentage of respondents said they didn’t expect to benefit from the talks. This week Figuera met Delcy Rodríguez herself at the presidential palace in an encounter broadcast on state television, drawing criticism from some opposition figures who said it played into the government’s hands. Figuera said she has also come to understand Washington’s decision to work with figures such as Alejandro Betancourt, the Venezuelan oilman the U.S. chose as its partner on a sweeping oil deal.
最重要的是，她接受了渐进式过渡的必要性，以及在设定选举日期之前重建该国法院和选举机构的必要性。
Most important, she accepts the need for a gradual transition and the need to rebuild the country’s courts and electoral institutions before setting an election date.“We think that justice will come, but for now we have to secure democracy,” she said.
“我们认为正义终将到来，但目前我们必须确保民主，”她说。与以往失败的谈判不同，马杜罗的前官员们正在合作，因为“他们正试图拯救自己并确保获得保障。”
Unlike previous failed negotiations, former Maduro officials are cooperating because “they are trying to save themselves and secure guarantees.”
这些谈判暴露了与该国最杰出的反对派领导人玛丽亚·科里娜·马查多之间的分歧。马查多在多次试图返回委内瑞拉失败后目前仍滞留巴拿马，她对谈判表示了支持，但指责华盛顿将她排除在外。
The talks have exposed a rift with María Corina Machado, the country’s most prominent opposition leader. Machado, who remains in Panama after repeated failed attempts to return to Venezuela, has expressed support for the talks but accuses Washington of excluding her from them.
在8月的一次采访中，她警告称，这些谈判可能会成为马杜罗忠实支持者争取时间的又一个机会。
In an August interview, she warned that they could become another opportunity for Maduro loyalists to buy time.
菲格拉反驳了马杜罗被排挤在外的说法。“我们邀请了他们，”她说道。但菲格拉表示，由于对谁应该领导谈判存在分歧，马杜罗拒绝接受关于这一进程的定期通报。
Figuera disputed that Machado had been shut out. “We invited them,” she said. But Figuera said that Machado declined to receive regular updates about the process amid disagreements over who should lead the negotiations.
马杜罗的助手没有回应置评请求。本周在加拉加斯街头，马杜罗所在政党的青年活动人士卡洛斯·费尔南德斯对这些会谈表示怀疑，并呼吁在明年举行选举。
“一小撮人正试图告诉我们，转型是缓慢的，”他说道，“你必须有耐心，现状就是如此，我们只能忍受。”
Machado aides didn’t respond to requests for comment. On the streets of Caracas this week, Carlos Fernandez, a youth activist for Machado’s party, cast doubts on the talks and called for elections next year.“A small group is trying to tell us that transitions are slow,” he said, “that you have to be patient, that this is all there is and that we have to put up with it.”
委内瑞拉国内对美国这种做法的怀疑情绪日益加重。最近的一项AtlasIntel与彭博社联合民调显示，对罗德里格斯处理方式的不满情绪创下了65%的历史新高，民调还显示特朗普的支持率跌至28%的新低，低于2月份的53%。在多年来看着政权利用谈判拖延时间和死抓权力不放之后，面对400%的通货膨胀和断电而苦苦挣扎的委内瑞拉人表示，他们对谈判中出现的又一次次承诺毫无信心。
There is growing skepticism in Venezuela about the U.S. approach. Disapproval for Rodríguez’s management hit a record high of 65% in a recent AtlasIntel/Bloomberg poll, which also found Trump’s popularity at a new low of 28%, down from 53% in February. After years watching the regime use negotiations to stall for time and cling to power, Venezuelans struggling with 400% inflation and power cuts say they have little faith in yet more promises from talks.“They talk, and talk and talk, while we get to sit here in the dark,” Ismael Gutierrez, a 69-year-old retiree said on a recent day as he tried to keep cool on his patio during a blackout.
“他们谈了又谈、谈了又谈，而我们只能坐在这里面对黑暗，”69岁的退休人员伊斯梅尔·古铁雷斯最近在一次停电期间试图在自家露台上乘凉时说道。“这些领导人里没有一个能带给人希望，”他说。
“There’s no hope with any of these leaders,” he said.
可通过 vera.bergengruen@wsj.com 联系维拉·贝伦格鲁恩，通过 kejal.vyas@wsj.com 联系克贾尔·维亚斯。
Write to Vera Bergengruen at vera.bergengruen@wsj.com and Kejal Vyas at kejal.vyas@wsj.com