前卫生与公众服务部部长罗伯特·肯尼迪二世的高级顾问米恩斯猛烈抨击现已卸任的白宫幕僚长苏西·怀尔斯以及唐纳德·特朗普总统的多位核心顾问，指责他们应对“让美国再次健康”运动等民粹主义议程进展停滞负责。
Means, former senior adviser to Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., torched now-former White House chief of staff Susie Wiles and several of President Donald Trump’s top advisers, laying the blame at their feet for stalled progress on populist platforms like the Make America Healthy Again movement.
在周五播出的热门播客节目《乔·罗根体验》一期中，米恩斯表示，怀尔斯、副幕僚长理查德·沃尔特斯、总统政策助理沃克·巴雷特、首席政治策略师詹姆斯·布莱尔以及特朗普民调专家托尼·法布里齐奥扼杀了“让美国再次健康”运动的势头，并阻碍了他认为特朗普和肯尼迪进驻华盛顿要兑现的优先事项。
In an episode of the popular Joe Rogan Experience podcast that aired Friday, Means said Wiles, deputy chief of staff Richard Walters, assistant to the president for policy Walker Barrett, top political strategist James Blair, and Trump pollster Tony Fabrizio killed the MAHA movement’s momentum and stalled the priorities that he believes Trump and Kennedy were ushered into Washington to deliver.
“这些人就是，我不是指以一种真正轻蔑的方式，这些幕僚并非最优秀、最聪明的人。但他们拥有巨大的权力，”米恩斯对罗根说，后者经常为“让美国再次健康”运动站台。“但他们就是典型的华盛顿人，你知道，他们玩那一套游戏，是啊，这太疯狂了。”米恩斯建议特朗普将他们全部解职。“我建议他清理门户，我认为他正在走向那一步，”米恩斯说。
“These people just, and I don't mean this like in a really dismissive way, these aren't the best and brightest, these staffers. They have tremendous power, though,” Means told Rogan, who has often promoted the MAHA movement. “But they're just like DC, you know, they play the game, and yeah, it's crazy.”Means suggested Trump fire them all. “I would recommend that he clear his house, and I think he's getting there,” Means said.
这次访谈是米恩斯上月辞去特朗普政府职务后的首次公开露面，距离共和党在选举中遭受惨痛失败、失去国会两院控制权仅过去三天。
The interview, Means’ first since resigning from the Trump administration last month, comes three days after Republicans suffered a humiliating defeat at the polls, losing both chambers of Congress.
米恩斯援引许多“让美国再次健康”运动拥趸的幻灭感，称这是选民对特朗普未能兑现2024年竞选民粹主义承诺感到更广泛失望的一部分。
Means cited the disillusionment of many MAHA devotees as part of a broader disappointment from voters who felt Trump did not deliver on populist promises from his 2024 campaign.
“我是说，这就是我们输掉中期选举的原因。我们与两年前竞选的主张背道而驰，”米恩斯说。白宫和卫生与公众服务部暂未回应置评请求。
“I mean, it's why we lost the midterms. We have been discordant from what was run on two years ago,” Means said. The White House and HHS did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
布莱尔强烈反驳了米恩斯的指责，为他在“让美国再次健康”议题上的工作进行了辩护。
Blair pushed back strongly on Means’ categorizations, defending his work on MAHA issues.
“我完全不知道 Calley Means 在说什么。他纯粹就是为了博取媒体关注而胡编乱造，”Blair 说。“我帮助 Kennedy 部长获得确认。我帮助将农药责任豁免条款从拨款法案中删除，议员们对此有记录在案。这纯属捏造。这是一次可悲的政治暗杀企图。给我打电话，Calley。”
"I have literally no idea what Calley Means is talking about. He’s literally just making shit up for media attention,” Blair said. “I helped get Secretary Kennedy confirmed. I helped get the pesticide liability shield removed from the appropriations bill, which members are on the record about. This is just made up stuff. A pathetic attempt at a political knifing. Call me, Calley."
Means 在 10 月底辞职，此前他多次试图推动联邦政府针对超加工食品的政策均告失败。MAHA 倡导者原本希望这一努力能促使政府出台新法规，推动更健康的饮食。但建立定义的做法遭到食品行业反对，后者警告称，此举会在选民关注生活成本之际导致食品价格上涨。
Means resigned at the end of October following repeated unsuccessful attempts to push through federal policy on ultraprocessed foods. MAHA advocates hoped the effort would prompt new government regulations and spur healthier eating. But establishing a definition was opposed by the food industry, which warned the move would lead to higher food prices at a time when voters were focused on the cost of living.
超加工食品之争只是过去两年间 MAHA 倡导者感到遭特朗普白宫忽视的几起事件之一。
The ultraprocessed food fight was only one among several incidents over the past two years where MAHA advocates felt disregarded by the Trump’s White House.
一份白宫 MAHA 报告将广泛使用的除草剂草甘膦列为美国人慢性病高发的潜在驱动因素，或许最能体现这种动态。Means 将事态后果描述为“来自行业近乎暴力的反应”。第二份 MAHA 报告完全未提草甘膦，Means 指控这是行业向 Wiles 施压的结果。
A White House MAHA report that named glyphosate, a widely-used herbicide, as a potential driver of Americans’ high rates of chronic disease perhaps most epitomized this dynamic. Means described the fallout as “an almost violent reaction from industry.”A second MAHA report didn’t mention glyphosate at all, which Means alleged was a result of industry pressuring Wiles.
草甘膦是广受欢迎的除草剂“农达”的关键成分。生产该产品的拜耳公司的游说人员推动白宫支持其阻止指控其产品致癌的诉讼。白宫最终在最高法院“孟山都诉 Durnell 案”的法庭之友简报中站在拜耳一边，引发 MAHA 倡导者广泛不满。
Glyphosate is the key ingredient in the popular weedkiller Roundup. Lobbyists for Bayer, which manufactures the product, pushed for White House support in their bid to block lawsuits alleging their products cause cancer. The White House ultimately sided with Bayer in an amicus brief in the Supreme Court's Monsanto v. Durnell case, prompting widespread frustration among MAHA advocates.
Means 表示，Kennedy —— 几十年来一直在起诉农药公司 —— 在白宫决定在最高法院支持草甘膦公司以及在一项行政命令中支持这些公司时，并未被咨询。
Means said that Kennedy – who had spent decades suing pesticide companies – wasn’t consulted when the White House decided to support glyphosate companies at the Supreme Court or in an executive order.
“所有这些事情完全都是在没有博比·肯尼迪参与任何政策流程的情况下完成的，”米恩斯说。“他们经常做的是试图把博比排除在讨论之外。”米恩斯经常为特朗普开脱，说总统不知道他的幕僚是如何与业界合作的。但米恩斯说，最终这种结盟让共和党失去了对权力的掌控。
“Both of these things were completely done without Bobby Kennedy throughout any policy process,” Means said. “What they frequently did is they tried to take Bobby out of the discussion.”Means frequently absolved Trump from his broader frustrations, saying the president was unaware of the ways in which his staff worked with industry. But ultimately that alliance cost Republicans their grip on power, Means said.
“美国人需要明白，如果他们因为现有体制下的政策承诺而被煽动、激动，他们就是被欺骗、被煤气灯效应操控、被撒谎了，”米恩斯说。“我们需要进行系统性改革。”
“Americans need to understand that if they are getting whipped up and excited about policy promises through our existing structure, they are being duped and gaslighted and lied to,” Means said. “We need to have systemic reform.”