英国前首相戴维·卡梅伦表示，英国应该退出《欧洲人权公约》。他将自己与一种强硬的反移民立场联系起来，而这种立场在曾经的英国主流政治右翼看来是令人反感的。
Prime Minister David Cameron said the UK should leave the European Convention on Human Rights, associating himself with a hardline anti-immigration position that would once have been anathema to the UK’s mainstream political right.
这位前首相一直在为保守党领袖凯米·巴德诺赫提供建议。他告诉米沙勒·侯赛因，他和他的继任者在政策上“有一些不同的看法”，但他补充说，巴德诺赫认为英国应该退出《欧洲人权公约》的立场是“绝对正确”的。该公约是二战后促进权利、自由和民主的框架。
The ex-premier, who has been advising Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch, told Mishal Husain that he and his more right-wing successor “have some different outlooks” on policy. But he added that she was “absolutely right” in her position that Britain should pull out of the ECHR, a post-World War II framework promoting rights, freedoms and democracy. “One of the reasons we’ve got such a problem with populism in our world is politicians of the center right and center left have not done enough to tackle illegal migration,” Cameron said.
“我们在世界上遇到民粹主义问题的原因之一，是中右翼和中左翼的政治家在解决非法移民问题上做得不够，”卡梅伦说。“我们必须不惜一切代价阻止小船，阻止非法移民，”他说，这些问题“阻碍了我们就许多事情进行理性的对话”。
“We have to do whatever it takes to stop the small boats and to stop the illegal migration” that’s “stopping us having a sensible conversation about lots of things,” he said.
卡梅伦的言论凸显了过去一个世纪领导英国政府的保守党与工党双头垄断在对欧关系处理方式上的分歧。首相安迪·伯纳姆正在寻求与欧盟建立更紧密的关系，并誓言要为英国制定各种选择，可能包括重新加入欧盟——卡梅伦警告称这将适得其反。工党政府也承诺不会“抛弃”《欧洲人权公约》。《米沙勒·侯赛因秀》是彭博周末的一档每周视频播客。
Cameron’s remarks highlight how the Tory-Labour duopoly that’s led UK governments for the past century are diverging in their approach to European relations. Prime Minister Andy Burnham is seeking closer ties with the bloc and has vowed to set out options for Britain that may extend to rejoining — something Cameron warned would be counterproductive. The Labour government has also pledged not to “dump” the ECHR. The Mishal Husain Show is a weekly video podcast from Bloomberg Weekend. here.
包括保守党在内的《欧洲人权公约》反对者表示，该公约阻碍了英国驱逐许多通过非正常途径抵达英国海岸的人。“事实是，只要还在《欧洲人权公约》内，我们就无法拥有强大的边境，”影子内政大臣克里斯·菲尔普上个月在保守党大会上表示。
Detractors of the ECHR, including in the Tory party, say the convention prevents Britain from deporting many people who have reached UK shores by irregular means. “The truth is we cannot have strong borders while in the ECHR,” Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp told the Tory Party conference last month.
近年来，从法国横渡英吉利海峡抵达英国海岸的移民激增，这激发了对奈杰尔·法拉奇领导的“英国改革党”反移民立场的支持。在伯纳姆7月就职之前，该党在全国民调中领先了一年多。尽管入境人数已从2022年超过4.5万人的峰值有所下降，但人数仍然足以引发抗议，例如今年早些时候在朴茨茅斯发生的抗议活动。
The rapid surge in recent years of migrants crossing the English Channel from France and arriving on British shores has galvanized support for Nigel Farage’s anti-immigration Reform UK, which led national polls for more than a year until Burnham took office in July. While arrivals are down from a peak of more than 45,000 in 2022, numbers have still been enough to spark protests, such as in Portsmouth earlier this year.
“我会对凯米说，无论付出什么代价，我们都必须解决这个问题，”卡梅伦说。两年半前，他在苏纳克领导的政府中担任外交大臣，当时政府希望改革而非退出《欧洲人权公约》。
“I would say to Kemi, whatever it takes, we’ve got to fix this problem,” said Cameron, who two and a half years ago was serving as foreign secretary in a government led by Rishi Sunak that wanted to reform, but not leave, the ECHR.
在欧洲，只有俄罗斯、白俄罗斯和梵蒂冈不是该公约的成员国。该公约是根据包括战时保守党首相温斯顿·丘吉尔在内的领导人在1948年发表的宣言而设立的。
In Europe, just Russia, Belarus and the Vatican aren’t members of the convention, which was set up following a declaration in 1948 by leaders including Tory wartime premier Winston Churchill.
卡梅伦本人深知兑现移民承诺的难度，即使是针对通过合法途径抵达英国的人也是如此。他在2010年上任时承诺将净移民人数降至每年“几万人”，但在他执政的六年里，他从未接近实现这一目标。
Cameron himself knows how hard it is to follow through on immigration pledges, even when it comes to those arriving in Britain by legal routes. He came to office in 2010 pledging to bring net immigration down to the “tens of thousands” per year, something he never came close to achieving during six years in charge.
为了说服英国人在2016年脱欧公投中投票支持留在欧盟，他与欧盟达成了一揽子协议，旨在使英国对根据人员自由流动规则移居英国的欧盟移民失去吸引力，其中包括对福利支付的“紧急刹车”。
In his bid to persuade Britons to vote to stay in the EU in the Brexit referendum in 2016, he negotiated a package with the bloc that would make the UK less attractive for EU migrants moving to the UK under freedom of movement rules, including an “emergency brake” on welfare payments.
在公投失败后，他辞职了，开启了长达十年的政治动荡。在此期间，英国经历了六位首相，国家在应对一系列全球经济冲击的同时，试图重塑与欧盟的关系。
After losing the plebiscite, he quit, ushering in a decade of political turmoil during which the UK has had six prime ministers as the country grappled with a series of global economic shocks and attempted to reshape its relationship with the EU.
“对于2016年公投后那段非常棘手的时期，我感到后悔吗？是的，我感到后悔。我的意思是，看着这一切很痛苦，”卡梅伦说。他表示，他渴望英国能有一种“稳定感”。
“Do I regret the fact that there was, you know, it was a very tricky period after the 2016 referendum? Yes, I do. I mean, it was painful to watch,” Cameron said. He said he longed for a “sense of stability” in Britain.
由戴维·卡梅伦主持的四集彭博新播客系列《终结阿尔茨海默病》将于11月16日上线。
Ending Alzheimer’s, a new four-part Bloomberg podcast series with David Cameron, will launch on Nov. 16.
卡梅伦还表示，对英国怀有敌意的国家曾试图影响围绕公投的政治辩论，但他表示不相信有证据表明俄罗斯的干预影响了结果。“事实是，我们的对手——你知道，俄罗斯、中国、朝鲜、伊朗——他们花了很多时间试图在我国播下分裂、不信任和不和谐的种子，”他说。
Cameron also said states hostile to the UK had sought to influence the political debate around the referendum, but said he did not believe there was evidence Russian interference had affected the outcome. “The fact is our adversaries — you know, Russia, China, North Korea, Iran — they spend a lot of time trying to sow division, distrust, and disharmony in our country,” he said.
正如彭博社周三披露的那样，卡梅伦现在的立场是，重新开启关于是否加入欧盟、其单一市场或关税同盟的辩论将是一个错误，这不仅冒着引发“非常漫长且痛苦的争论”的风险，还可能危及伯纳姆政府为确保与欧盟建立更优惠的经济和安全关系而进行的单独努力。“我们必须让伙伴关系模式发挥作用，我认为我们可以做到，”他说。
As revealed Wednesday by Bloomberg, Cameron’s stance now is that reopening the debate on whether to join the EU, its single market or its customs union would be a mistake that risks both a “very long and painful argument” and also could jeopardize separate efforts by Burnham’s government to secure more favorable economic and security ties with the bloc. “We’ve got to make the partnership model work, and I think we can,” he said.
这位前保守党领袖曾担任该职务11年，包括在唐宁街10号的6年，后来在苏纳克政府下短暂回归。最近，他一直在为巴德诺赫提供建议，帮助她应对每周在下议院首相问答环节中与伯纳姆的交锋。
The former Conservative Party leader, who held the role for 11 years including six in 10 Downing Street, returned to government briefly under Sunak. More recently, he’s been advising Badenoch for her weekly House of Commons clashes with Burnham in PMQs.
“我1990年开始为约翰·梅杰工作，帮他准备首相问答，”卡梅伦说。“所以从某种程度上说，36年后我还在做同样的工作。我的职业生涯并没有真正进步。”虽然他表示不会撰写下一份保守党竞选纲领，但卡梅伦确实透露了他再次投身政治的渴望，他告诉侯赛因，如果巴德诺赫来找他，他“绝对有空”。
“I started working for John Major in 1990 helping him with Prime Minister’s Questions,” Cameron said. “So in some ways, I’m doing the same job 36 years later. My career hasn’t really progressed.”While he said he wouldn’t be writing the next Tory manifesto, Cameron did reveal his eagerness to serve in politics again, telling Husain he was “absolutely available” if Badenoch were to come knocking.
“我热爱公共服务，”他说。“如果我的政党或其他人要求我做公共服务方面的事情，我会非常认真地对待。”
“I love public service,” he said. “If my party or anyone else asked me to do something, in public service, I would take that very seriously.”