
周三举行的第二场密歇根州参议员辩论中,民主党提名人阿卜杜勒·埃尔-赛义德与前共和党众议员迈克·罗杰斯发生了数次激烈交锋,但气氛远不如本月初首次交锋那般剑拔弩张。这场在底特律举行的辩论距离选举日不足两周,正值争夺空缺参议员席位的激烈角逐之际。民调显示,接替即将卸任的民主党参议员加里·彼得斯的竞争呈现势均力敌的胶着态势。
The second Michigan Senate debate on Wednesday featured several heated clashes between Democratic nominee Abdul El-Sayed and former Republican Rep. Mike Rogers, though it was far more tame than an explosive first meeting earlier this month. The debate, which took place in Detroit, came less than two weeks before Election Day in the bitterly contested battle for an open Senate seat. Polls show a neck and neck contest to replace retiring Sen. Gary Peters, a Democrat.
埃尔-赛义德试图在各个环节将罗杰斯与唐纳德·特朗普总统捆绑,同时将对手描绘成出卖选民利益的企业代言人。在回答关于应对生活成本上涨问题的提问时,埃尔-赛义德称,汽油和食品杂货价格上涨都是与伊朗开战的产物。“我们需要一项战争权力决议,而不是一位将在这场从一开始就毫无道理、现在当然更毫无道理的战争中与唐纳德·特朗普肩并肩站在一起的参议员,”埃尔-赛义德说。
El-Sayed sought to tie Rogers to President Donald Trump at every turn while also painting his opponent as a corporate sellout. During a question about addressing cost-of-living concerns, El-Sayed said rising gas and grocery prices are all products of the war with Iran “We need a War Powers resolution rather than a senator who is going to stand hip to hip with Donald Trump on this war that made no sense when it started and certainly makes no sense now,” El-Sayed said.
“我期待与美国参议院的同事们站在一起,追究唐纳德·特朗普在这场战争中的责任。我们还需要做的另一件事,是对抗那些长期以来买通并出卖政客的企业。” 近几周,罗杰斯试图在战争问题上与特朗普拉开距离。这位共和党人推出了一则呼吁战争降温的广告,但他也表示,特朗普最初发动战争针对伊朗核计划是有正当理由的。
“I’m looking forward to standing with my colleagues in the United States Senate to hold Donald Trump accountable for this war. The other thing that we’re going to need to do is take on the corporations who bought and sold politicians for a very long time.”Rogers has sought to create space between himself and Trump on the war in recent weeks. The Republican cut an ad calling for the war to wind down, though he has also said there was good reason for Trump to go to war initially to target Iran’s nuclear program.
在上周接受NBC新闻采访时,当被问及特朗普发动战争是否犯了错误,罗杰斯回答:“我不这么认为。” 此外,罗杰斯试图将埃尔-赛义德与海外伊斯兰原教旨主义团体联系起来,同时质疑其履历和可信度。“他说的一切都不准确、不正确,”罗杰斯在回应埃尔-赛义德的批评时说,并补充称这位民主党人误导选民,隐瞒了他与穆斯林兄弟会的联系及其自身的医学背景。
In an interview with NBC News last week, Rogers said “I don’t think so,” when asked if Trump made a mistake launching the war. Separately, Rogers aimed to tie El-Sayed to Islamic fundamentalist groups overseas while questioning his resume and trustworthiness. “Everything that he said is not accurate, not correct,” Rogers said in response to criticisms from El-Sayed, adding that the Democrat had misled voters about his connections to the Muslim Brotherhood and his own medical background.
“这是一种我们需要理解的模式,这样才能信任这位候选人。”在竞选最后几周,罗杰斯试图将穆斯林兄弟会推上风口浪尖,多次声称埃尔-萨耶德及其家人与该伊斯兰主义组织有联系。周三,他说埃尔-萨耶德曾要求埃及穆斯林兄弟会领导人“也给那里的警察撤资。我是说,这简直难以置信。”
“This is a pattern that we need to understand for this to trust this candidate.”Rogers has sought to elevate the Muslim Brotherhood in the final weeks of the race, claiming on several occasions that El-Sayed and his family had connections to the Islamist organization. On Wednesday, he said El-Sayed asked the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt “to defund the police there, too. I mean, it’s unbelievable.”
“因为我母亲——她是密苏里州的一名护士——他不断拿我与一个我从未参与过的组织的所谓关联说事,”埃尔-萨耶德回应道。在最后一场辩论中,罗杰斯质问埃尔-萨耶德的母亲法滕·埃尔科米,追问她在一家慈善机构的工作;美国政府后来将该机构列为恐怖组织支持者,导致其关闭。埃尔科米从未被指控有任何不当行为。埃尔-萨耶德多次否认与穆斯林兄弟会有任何联系,上周在接受NBC新闻采访时表示,当被问及这些指控时,“我没有关系,我们没有关系。”
“He keeps raising this question about this association with an organization I’ve never been a part of, because of my mom, who’s a nurse in Missouri,” El-Sayed responded. In their last debate, Rogers questioned El-Sayed’s mother, Fatten Elkomy, over her work at a charity that the U.S. government later as a supporter of terrorist groups, leading to its closure. Elkomy was never accused of wrongdoing. El-Sayed has repeatedly denied any connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, telling NBC News last week, “I have no ties, we have no ties,” when he was asked about the accusations.
“这毫无道理,实际上真的非常低级,迈克。真的非常低级,”埃尔-萨耶德周三说。“质疑我对宪法的忠诚。”争论升级为辩论中最激烈的时刻,罗杰斯试图打断埃尔-萨耶德。“我说话呢,”埃尔-萨耶德一边用手指指着罗杰斯一边说。“我说话呢。我说话呢。请让我说完。”“质疑我对宪法的承诺真的非常低级。我为美国感到自豪。我为身为美国人而自豪,”埃尔-萨耶德继续说道。
“It doesn’t make any sense, and it’s actually really quite beneath you, Mike. It’s really quite beneath you,” El-Sayed said Wednesday. “To call into question my loyalty to the Constitution.”The exchange culminated in the most heated moment of the debate as Rogers tried to interrupt El-Sayed. “I’m talking,” El-Sayed said while pointing his finger at Rogers. “I am talking. I’m talking. Excuse me.”“To bring into question my commitment to the Constitution is really beneath you. I am proud of America. I’m proud to be an American,” El-Sayed continued.
“我为我们的宪法感到自豪,它保障了我们所有人按自己的选择祈祷的权利,而你提出这个问题,我认为其实相当可耻。”罗杰斯回应说,埃尔-赛义德“可以用任何你想要的方式祈祷,我知道你想把这事变成你是受害者的事”,并补充道,“这关乎一种意识形态。”这场辩论凸显了两位候选人在风格上的对比,这种对比在竞选活动中已持续数月,尽管埃尔-赛义德的攻击性远不如首场交锋时那样强。
“I’m proud of our Constitution that guarantees all of us the right to pray as we choose to pray, and the question that you would ask that, I think, is actually really quite shameful.”Rogers responded that El-Sayed “could pray any way you want, and I know you want to make this about you being a victim,” adding, “This is about an ideology.”The debate highlighted a contrast in style between the two candidates that has been playing out for months on the campaign trail, though El-Sayed was far less aggressive than he was during the first contest.
埃尔-赛义德发言时几乎全程直视镜头。与此同时,罗杰斯极少直视镜头,而是选择与主持人进行眼神交流。主持人严格控制候选人的答题时间,似乎涵盖了他们想要讨论的每一个议题,辩论在整点前几分钟结束。他们讨论了医疗保健、移民、犯罪、社会保障和关税等议题。在关税问题上,罗杰斯似乎进一步拉开了与特朗普的距离,此前他在本月初曾呼吁结束与加拿大的贸易战。
El-Sayed looked directly into the camera nearly the entire time he was speaking. Rogers, meanwhile, offered few looks directly into the lens, opting instead to make eye-contact with the moderators. The moderators kept tight control over the candidates’ time to answer questions and appeared to get through every subject they wanted to address, with the debate concluding a couple of minutes before the full hour had passed. They addressed healthcare, immigration, crime, Social Security and tariffs, among other issues. On tariffs, Rogers seemed to put additional distance between himself and Trump after earlier this month calling for an end to the trade war with Canada.
他周三表示,虽然一些关税给他的州带来了“积极”进展,但他说“也许这些对加拿大的关税考虑得不够周全”。他将自己定位为能够阻止特朗普实施损害密歇根州利益政策的人。“你们可能想派回一个真正能争取到会面、把这些事解决的人,”他说。“如果对密歇根有利,我就支持;如果对密歇根不利,我就反对。”在稍后的一个环节,埃尔-赛义德质疑选一名共和党参议员以便最好地约束特朗普这一想法。“我只是在试图弄清楚这事会怎么发展,”这位民主党人说。
He said Wednesday that although some tariffs had brought “positive” developments for his state, he said “maybe these Canadian tariffs were not well thought through.”He framed himself as being someone who could stop Trump from enacting policies that would be harmful to Michigan. “You might want to send the guy back who can actually get the meeting to get these things worked out,” he said. “If it’s good for Michigan, I’m going to be for it. If it’s bad for Michigan, I’m going to be against it.”At a later point, El-Sayed questioned the idea of electing a Republican senator in order to best rein in Trump. “So I’m just trying to figure out how this is going to go,” the Democrat said.
“唐纳德·特朗普会帮他进入美国参议院,然后他转过身来对抗特朗普?因为你们知道,共和党参议员对抗唐纳德·特朗普的真实历史就摆在眼前。我看不到这种情况会发生。”整场辩论期间,埃尔-赛义德提到了一个供支持者在家观看辩论时玩的“MAGO宾果”游戏,棋盘上的格子由罗杰斯的某些提及来填满。这位共和党人一度反驳说:“宾果游戏应该是看他能在任何回答里塞进多少次‘特朗普’这个词。‘他在过去不管多长时间里给出的任何回答,30分钟?’罗杰斯说。‘这太荒谬了。这真正关乎密歇根州最好的前进道路。’”
“Donald Trump’s going to help him get into the United States Senate, and he’s going to turn around and stand up to Trump? Because you know we’ve got a real history of Republican senators standing up to Donald Trump right now. I don’t see it happening.”Throughout the debate, El-Sayed made reference to a “MAGA bingo” game for supporters to play at home as they watched the debate, with the spots on the board being filled in by certain references from Rogers. The Republican retorted at one point that “the bingo game ought to be how many times can he put the word Trump in any answer.”“Any answer that he has given in the last, whatever, 30 minutes?”
两位候选人还阐述了各自在人工智能方面的愿景。罗杰斯表示,他支持给予前沿人工智能公司反垄断豁免,但仅限于其技术安全方面的协调,并暗示他可能支持为变得危险的程序设置所谓的“熔断开关”。最近发布了更新版人工智能政纲的埃尔-赛义德表示,他希望暂停前沿研究,并称立法者必须解决“即使是这些公司的首席执行官也认为,未来五到十年内他们可能会取代50%的白领工作岗位”这一事实。
Rogers said. “It’s ridiculous. This is really about the best way forward for Michigan.”The two candidates also laid out their visions on artificial intelligence. Rogers said he supports an antitrust exemption for the frontier AI companies that only covers coordination on the safety of their technology, and he suggested he might be in favor of a so-called “kill switch” for programs that become dangerous. El-Sayed, who recently released an updated AI platform, said he wants a pause on frontier research and said lawmakers must address “the fact that even the CEOs of these corporations think they could take 50% of the white-collar jobs over the next five to 10 years.”
“因此我们需要确保人工智能处于民主之下,意味着将有民主任命的人员进入这些人工智能公司的董事会,”埃尔-赛义德说。“也应该有人工智能禁区。人工智能不应有权解雇你,不应有权发射武器,不应有权拒绝你的医疗保险。”辩论结束时,候选人还回答了一系列快速问答。
“So we need to make sure that we have AI under democracy, meaning that there’s going to be democratically appointed folks on the boards of these AI corporations,” El-Sayed said. “There also should be AI no-gos. AI should not be able to fire you, shouldn’t be able to fire a weapon, shouldn’t be able to deny you health insurance.”The candidates also answered a series of rapid-fire questions at the end of the debate.
关于扩大最高法院,El-Sayed 表示他支持这样做,“但要公平地进行”。当被问及是否支持购买枪支时实施普遍背景调查,Rogers 回答“视情况而定”。在 El-Sayed 和主持人指出这是一个是非题后,Rogers 说他“处于中间立场”。
On expanding the Supreme Court, El-Sayed said he was in favor of doing it, “but fairly.”Asked if he supported universal background checks to purchase firearms, Rogers said it “depends.”After El-Sayed and the moderators said it was a yes or no question, Rogers said he was “in the middle.”