
唐纳德·特朗普总统周日接受《60分钟》节目内容广泛的采访时,面对了关于其个人财富不断增长、其所在政党中期选举惨败以及他拒绝宽恕政治对手等问题的尖锐追问。在民主党人夺取国会两院控制权仅数天后,特朗普接受了哥伦比亚广播公司新闻记者罗斯·杜塔特的采访。他在采访中承认自己的移民打击行动做得过头,承诺对政府盟友给予全面赦免,并为家族的商业交易进行辩护。
President Donald Trump faced a grilling over his growing personal fortune, his party’s disastrous midterm election losses and his refusal to forgive political enemies during a ranging 60 Minutes interview on Sunday. Sitting down with CBS News correspondent Ross Douthat just days after Democrats seized control of both chambers of Congress, Trump conceded his immigration crackdown had gone too far, promised sweeping pardons for administration allies and defended his family's business dealings.
以下是此次采访中最引人注目的五个时刻。1. 特朗普反驳杜塔特关于30亿美元的质问《福布斯》估计,特朗普自重返白宫以来个人财富增长了约30亿美元。杜塔特就此向特朗普发难,追问其家族加密货币业务可能存在的利益冲突。记者特别提到世界自由金融公司,该公司由特朗普与阿联酋政府有关联的投资者共同拥有,随后质问总统为何不干脆出售自己的股份。
Here are five of the biggest moments from the interview. 1. Trump Pushes Back on Douthat's $3 Billion Question Trump was confronted over a Forbes estimate that his personal fortune had grown by roughly $3 billion since returning to the White House, with Douthat pressing him over potential conflicts of interest involving his family's cryptocurrency business. The correspondent highlighted World Liberty Financial, a company co-owned by Trump with investors connected to the United Arab Emirates government, before asking why the president would not simply sell his interests.
特朗普坚称自己几乎不参与财务事务,他对杜塔特说:“我几乎不花时间关注我的净资产。我不在乎。”你怎么从现金中撤资?所以我承受了很多压力,因为我想他们交易了大概5万只股票,因为那就是他们做的事。全是计算机生成的。所以如果他们买了一丁点英伟达的股票,“哦,特朗普是——”我根本不知道他们到底在买什么。
Trump insisted he had little involvement in his finances, telling Douthat: “I devote almost no time to my net worth. I don't care.”How do you divest from cash? So I took a lotta heat because I think they traded, like, 50,000 stocks, because that's what they do. It's all computer generated. So if they buy a little tiny piece of Nvidia, "Oh, Trump is -" I have no idea what the hell they're buying.
我以前甚至都没听说过。全是计算机生成的。是由世界上最大的公司操作的。我甚至从未和那家公司说过话。我不在乎。说实话,我不在乎。事情就是这样:你拿走几十亿美元,交给这些人,祝你好运。然后他们就开始交易。《福布斯》高级编辑丹·亚历山大随后驳斥特朗普的解释是“胡说八道”,指责总统就其不断增长的财富误导公众。
I've never even heard of it before. It's all computer generated. It's done by the biggest companies in the world. I've never even spoken to the company. I don't care. Honestly, I don't care. What it is is you take billions of dollars, you give it to these guys, good luck. And then they start trading. Forbes senior editor Dan Alexander subsequently dismissed Trump's explanation as "nonsense," accusing the president of misleading the public about his growing wealth. 2.
2.“驱逐者之首”眨眼了 在此次访谈最令人意外的交锋之一中,特朗普承认其政府激进的驱逐行动做得太过,并暗示他可能与民主党人合作推动移民改革。当被问及打击行动是否损害了共和党在中期选举中的前景时,特朗普承认,驱逐那些有工作、支撑社区的无证移民疏远了一些选民。他暗示,在酒店、园林等行业长期工作的无证工人,有可能根据谈判达成的协议被允许留在国内。
The Deporter-in-Chief Blinks In one of the interview's most surprising exchanges, Trump acknowledged that his administration's aggressive deportation campaign had gone too far and suggested he could work with Democrats on immigration reform. Asked whether the crackdown had hurt Republicans in the midterms, Trump conceded that removing undocumented immigrants who held jobs and supported their communities had alienated some voters. He suggested that longtime undocumented workers in industries including hospitality and landscaping could potentially be allowed to remain in the country under a negotiated agreement.
特朗普:我认为你会同意,在这方面我得 A+。我在“封锁”边境上得 A+。在过去 17 个月里,没有人、零人通过我们的南部边境非法入境,而此前却有 2500 万人。他们是以大篷车队的形式涌入的。没人见过这种场面。好啦。在“把人赶出去”这件事上,把坏人赶出去我得非常高的分。但我受损是因为我们也抓走了那些有好工作的人,他们只犯了一条规、违反了一条法,那就是非法入境。
TRUMP: And I think you would agree that I get an A+ for that. I get an A+ for closing. Nobody, in the last 17 months, just came out, zero people came in through our southern border, as opposed to 25 million people . They came in through caravans. Nobody ever saw anything like it. Okay. For getting people out, I get very high marks for getting the bad ones out. But I get hurt because we also took people that had good jobs, that created one violation, or breaking of the law, and that was that they came into the country illegally.
现在,国内很大一部分人认为他们应该被驱逐出境。也有很大一部分人认为,如果他们是好人,在园林公司干活、在酒店干活、或者做点别的什么,对吧?在某些情况下还在纳税。还有一大群人认为他们应该被允许留下。杜哈特:所以你认为你的驱逐政策做得太过了?特朗普:我认为太严厉了?杜哈特:太严厉了?
Now, there is a large part of the country that think that they should be put out. And there's a large part of the country that think that they should be allowed to stay if they're good people working in a landscaping company, or workin' in a hotel, or doing something, right? And in some cases, paying taxes. And there's a large group of people think that they should be allowed to stay. DOUTHAT: So you think your deportation policy went too far? TRUMP: I think it was too tough? DOUTHAT: It was too tough?
特朗普:我认为可能太严厉了,是的。很多人会说这很棒。但也有很多人认为太严厉了。
TRUMP: I think it might be too tough, yeah. And a lotta people would say that it's great. But a lotta people think it's too tough.
特朗普还承认,他政府内部有些成员主张驱逐所有无证移民,但他拒绝点名。
Trump also acknowledged that members of his own administration favored removing every undocumented immigrant, although he declined to identify them. 3.
- 中期选举责任归于……在别处,特朗普试图与共和党在中期选举中的惨败划清界限,尽管他亲自背书的几位候选人在传统保守州落选。多哈特就特朗普支持得克萨斯州参议员候选人肯·帕克斯顿和南卡罗来纳州的达琳·格雷厄姆质问总统,询问为何特朗普的政治号召力未能转化为其背书候选人的胜利。特朗普为其背书辩护,并辩称候选人不一定要为失利负责。他将责任归咎于与伊朗的战争、汽油价格上涨以及选民未能出来投票,同时坚称自己的声望依然强劲。“我认为他们其实没去投票,”特朗普说,并补充称一些共和党选民对候选人不感冒,还辩称他“并不在选票上”。总统还坚持认为,参议员约翰·科宁(共和党-得克萨斯州)若作为提名人而非帕克斯顿参选,也会落败。
The Midterm Buck Stops... Somewhere Else Trump attempted to distance himself from the Republican Party's sweeping midterm defeats, despite personally endorsing several candidates who lost in traditionally conservative states. Douthat challenged the president over his backing of Texas Senate candidate Ken Paxton and South Carolina's Darline Graham, questioning why Trump's political appeal had failed to translate into victories for his chosen candidates. Trump defended his endorsements and argued that the candidates were not necessarily responsible for the losses. He blamed the war with Iran, rising gasoline prices and voters' failure to turn out, while insisting his own popularity remained strong. “I think they didn't vote, really,” Trump said, adding that some Republican voters had been unimpressed by the candidates on offer and argued he was "not on the ballot." The president also maintained that Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) would have lost had he been the nominee instead of Paxton. 4.
- 特朗普承诺卸任前大赦潮特朗普透露计划在卸任前发布大规模总统赦令,暗示与其政府有关的任何人都可能获得保护,免受未来起诉。当被问及是否预期在总统任期结束时大量赦免时,特朗普给予肯定回答,并表示希望防止其盟友遭遇他在第一任期后经历的法律战。“我打算发布大量赦令,”他宣称。总统还留出了自我赦免的可能性,但表示预计不会这么做。“我不想让为国家服务、干得很好的好人,余生都像我这四年那样,不得不花时间为自己辩护,对抗激进左派疯子,对抗那些非常卑鄙刻薄的人。”
Trump Promises Presidential Pardon Palooza Trump revealed plans to issue a sweeping round of presidential pardons before leaving office, suggesting that anyone associated with his administration could potentially receive protection from future prosecution. Asked whether he expected to grant large numbers of pardons at the end of his presidency, Trump answered in the affirmative and said he wanted to prevent his allies from facing the legal battles he endured after his first term. “I intend to issue tremendous numbers of pardons,” he declared. The president also entertained the possibility of pardoning himself, although he indicated that he did not expect to do so. I don't want to have good people that are serving this country and doing a great job spending the rest of their life like I had to do for four years defending myself by radical left lunatics, by people that were very nasty and mean.
我打算签发大量赦免令,事实上,我常说,任何曾进入椭圆形办公室方圆一千英里之内的人(都能获得赦免)。特朗普为自己此前赦免1月6日国会大厦骚乱者进行了辩护,包括当杜塔伊就那些袭击警察的人向他提出质疑时。5. 特朗普即便到了天堂门口也不会宽恕或忘记。采访以一段关于死亡、天堂以及特朗普对其政治对手持久敌意的非同寻常的交锋结束。
I intend to issue tremendous numbers of pardons, in fact, I say oftentimes anybody that got within a thousand miles of the Oval Office. Trump defended his earlier pardons of January 6 Capitol rioters, including when Douthat challenged him over those who had attacked police officers. 5. Trump Won’t Forgive or Forget, Even at the Pearly Gates The interview ended with an extraordinary exchange about death, heaven, and Trump's enduring hostility toward his political opponents.
杜塔伊问总统,如果宽恕包括前联邦调查局局长詹姆斯·科米和前众议院议长南希·佩洛西在内的对手是进入天堂的条件,他是否能做到。特朗普拒绝了,称宽恕那些他认为是虚伪且“坏”的人,意味着背弃他对他们真实的感受。记者追问,即便在上帝的审判面前,这个回答是否依然成立,促使特朗普承认他的仇恨超出了政治分歧。
Douthat asked whether the president could forgive adversaries including former FBI director James Comey and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi if doing so were the condition for entering heaven. Trump refused, arguing that forgiving people he considered dishonest and "bad" would mean abandoning his genuine feelings about them. The correspondent pressed him on whether that answer would hold even before God's judgment, prompting Trump to acknowledge that his hatred extended beyond political disagreements.
“我大概做不到,不,因为我确实恨我的一些敌人,而且我会一直恨下去,”总统说。尽管如此,特朗普表示希望自己死后能进入天堂,他告诉杜塔伊,他不想下地狱,并希望自己离世后会被“怀念”。以上内容请通过哥伦比亚广播公司新闻观看。
“I probably cannot do that, no, because I do hate some of my enemies and I always will,” the president said. Trump nevertheless expressed hope that he would reach heaven when he died, telling Douthat he did not want to go to hell and hoped he'd be "missed" when he's gone. Watch above via CBS News.