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特朗普对《60分钟》表示驱逐政策“过于严厉”Trump tells 60 Minutes that deportation policy was ‘too tough’

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10月,联邦探员在纽约的一次美国移民及海关执法局行动中。唐纳德·特朗普周日对《60分钟》表示,他的强硬移民政策“既有帮助也有伤害”。摄影:查利·特里巴莱奥/法新社/盖蒂图片社Federal agents during an ICE operation in New York in October. Donald Trump told 60 Minutes on Sunday his hardline immigration policy had ‘both helped and hurt’. Photograph: Charly Triballeau/AFP/Getty Images

联邦探员在10月于纽约执行ICE行动。唐纳德·特朗普周日在《60分钟》节目中表示,他的强硬移民政策“既有帮助也有伤害”。

Federal agents during an ICE operation in New York in October. Donald Trump told 60 Minutes on Sunday his hardline immigration policy had ‘both helped and hurt’.

总统罕见承认,其第二任期的标志性政策之一已成为政治累赘 唐纳德·特朗普承认其驱逐政策“过于强硬”,并提出愿与民主党达成移民协议,此举是在共和党在中期选举中惨败后做出的让步。

President makes unusual acknowledgement that one of the defining policies of his second administration had become a political liability Donald Trump has admitted that his deportation policy was “too tough” and has offered to strike an immigration deal with Democrats in a concession following the Republicans’ disastrous defeat in the midterm elections.

在周日播出的CBS电视网《60分钟》节目专访中,总统承认激进打击行动在政治上损害了他,并表示愿意达成安排,允许部分无证移民留在美国。

In an interview on the CBS network’s 60 Minutes broadcast on Sunday, the president acknowledged that the aggressive crackdown had hurt him politically and said he was open to an arrangement to allow some undocumented immigrants to remain in the US.

《60分钟》记者罗斯·杜萨特询问特朗普,其驱逐政策是否走得太远。“我认为太强硬了,”他说。“我认为可能太强硬了,是的。很多人会说这很棒。但也有很多人认为太强硬了。”总统的言论罕见地坦诚承认,其第二任期的标志性政策之一已成为政治累赘。但这似乎与他周五决定提拔、作为其移民打压行动设计师的斯蒂芬·米勒为白幕僚长一事相悖。

Trump was asked by 60 Minutes correspondent Ross Douthat whether his deportation policy had gone too far. “I think it was too tough,” he said. “I think it might be too tough, yeah. And a lot of people would say that it’s great. But a lot of people think it’s too tough.”The president’s comments offered an unusually frank acknowledgment that one of the defining policies of his second administration had become a political liability. But they were seemingly at odds with his decision on Friday to elevate Stephen Miller the architect of his immigration crackdown, to White House chief of staff.

自特朗普重返白宫以来,移民与海关执法局(ICE)在工作场所、住所和公共场所开展大规模突袭,波及无犯罪记录者,拆散家庭,在移民社区制造恐慌。联邦探员今年早些时候在明尼阿波利斯执行行动时开枪打死两名美国公民——雷妮·古德和亚历克斯·普雷蒂。

Since Trump returned to office, sweeping Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) raids at workplaces, homes and public spaces have ensnared people with no criminal records, separated families and spread fear in immigrant communities. Federal agents fatally shot two US citizens, Renee Good and Alex Pretti, during operations in Minneapolis earlier this year.

这位总统声称,他的政策“既有帮助也有伤害”,因为人们给他在“封锁边境”方面打了“A+”,在“把坏人赶出去”方面给了“非常高的分数”。但他承认:“我受到伤害,是因为我们也带走了那些有好工作的人,他们只犯了一次违规,或者触犯了一次法律,那就是他们非法入境。”特朗普补充说,国内存在相互竞争的观点,关于是否应该驱逐无证移民,或者如果他们在工作并纳税,是否允许他们留下。

The president claimed that his policy “both helped and hurt”, since people gave him an “A+ for closing up the border” and “very high marks for getting the bad ones out”. But he admitted: “I get hurt because we also took people that had good jobs, that created one violation, or breaking of the law, and that was that they came into the country illegally.”Trump added that there were competing views within the country about whether undocumented immigrants should be deported or allowed to remain if they were working and paying taxes.

他说,一些人认为“如果他们是好人,在园林公司工作”“在某些情况下,还在纳税”,就应该被允许留下。

He said some people believed that “they should be allowed to stay if they’re good people working in a landscaping company” and “in some cases, paying taxes”.

特朗普表示,他认为与民主党达成协议是可行的,允许一些长期无证居民留下,同时继续驱逐被判犯有严重罪行的人。他提议针对杀人犯、强奸犯和毒贩,同时为在该国居住了10年或15年的人提供安置方案。

Trump said he believed an agreement with Democrats was achievable, allowing some long-term undocumented residents to stay while continuing to remove people convicted of serious crimes. He proposed targeting killers, rapists and drug dealers while making an accommodation for people who had been in the country for 10 or 15 years.

“让那些在这里的人,在某些情况下在这里待了10年和15年的人,为他们达成一项协议,”他说。他将该提议描述为可谈判的内容,说道:“我认为这实际上是可行的。”

“Let the people that are here, and in some cases here for 10 and 15 years, work a deal for them,” he said. He described the proposal as something that could be negotiated, saying: “I think that’s something that’s actually doable.”

特朗普暗示民主党对妥协持开放态度,称一些人已经与他取得了联系。当被问及能否为了达成协议而避免辱骂对手长达六个月时,他回答:“非常容易。”特朗普还将与伊朗的战争和更高的汽油价格归咎为共和党在中期选举中失利的主要原因,同意其副总统J·D·万斯的评估,即该冲突是一个主要因素。他还提到他所描述的对以色列日益增长的厌恶情绪。

Trump suggested Democrats were receptive to a compromise, saying some had already contacted him. Asked whether he could refrain from name-calling for six months to secure an agreement, he replied: “Very easily.”Trump also blamed the war with Iran and higher petrol prices for much of the Republicans’ midterms defeat, agreeing with an assessment by his vice-president, J D Vance that the conflict had been a major factor. He also cited what he described as growing dislike of Israel.

然而,他坚持认为军事行动是合理的,并表示他会再次做出同样的决定。“我的回答是坚定的肯定,因为你不能让伊朗拥有核武器,”他说。

He maintained, however, that the military campaign had been justified and said he would make the same decision again. “My answer is an emphatic yes because you can’t let Iran have a nuclear weapon,” he said.

特朗普坚称战争已获胜,并预测德黑兰最终会谈判达成协议。他承认军事行动短期内可能不受欢迎,称:“我认为从历史角度看,这将是一个非常好的决定。对今天和明天来说是个好决定吗?也许不是。”他说,中期选举后不寻求升级冲突。

Trump insisted the war had been won and predicted that Tehran would eventually negotiate a deal. He acknowledged that the military campaign might not have been popular in the short term, saying: “I think historically, this will be a very good decision. Is it a good decision for today and tomorrow? Maybe not.”He said he was not looking to escalate the conflict after the midterms.

在经济方面,总统承认其政府未能有效传达其成就,尽管他反复声称就业、投资和股市数据处于创纪录水平。“我认为是信息传递不好,也许是我不好,”他说。

On the economy, the president conceded that his administration had failed to communicate its achievements effectively, despite repeatedly claiming that employment, investment and stock market figures were at record levels. “I think it was bad messaging, maybe by me,” he said.

特朗普表示愿意接受人工智能的保障措施,尽管他此前倾向于让科技公司自我监管,而不是实施全面的政府限制。“我不介意护栏,”他对《60分钟》节目说。“但我不想让我们处于深度的第二位置。”采访还引发了关于特朗普重返白宫以来个人财富大幅增加的问题。

Trump signalled an openness to safeguards for artificial intelligence, despite having previously favoured allowing technology companies to police themselves rather than imposing sweeping government restrictions. “I don’t mind guardrails,” he told 60 Minutes. “But I don’t wanna put us in a deep second position.”The interview also raised questions about the substantial increase in Trump’s personal wealth since his return to the White House.

杜哈特引用《福布斯》估算,特朗普净资产从2024年秋季到2025年秋季增加了30亿美元。特朗普最初认为增幅反映了股市整体表现,并称财务由其儿子打理。

Douthat cited a Forbes estimate that Trump’s net worth had increased by $3bn from the autumn of 2024 to the autumn of 2025. Trump initially suggested that the increase reflected the general performance of the stock market and said his finances were managed by his son.

被问及家族加密货币业务“世界自由金融”(World Liberty Financial)——他是联合所有者,该公司吸引了与阿拉伯联合酋长国有关人士的投资——特朗普以“我知道这方面一无所知”为由为该安排辩护。但《福布斯》资深编辑丹·亚历山大在一条长推文中质疑特朗普的解释,认为总统财富的增加无法仅用股市上涨来解释。

Asked about his family’s cryptocurrency business, World Liberty Financial in which he is a co-owner and which has attracted investment from people connected to the United Arab Emirates, Trump defended the arrangement by saying: “I know nothing about it.”But Dan Alexander, a Forbes senior editor who calculates the net worth of wealthy individuals for the magazine, challenged Trump’s explanation in a lengthy thread on arguing that the president’s increased fortune could not be explained simply by stock market gains.

亚历山大指出了多个来源,包括产生超过10亿美元收益的加密货币项目以及特朗普持有的代币增值、扩大其品牌业务价值的海外许可协议,以及在纽约民事欺诈案中取消近5亿美元的财务处罚。

Alexander identified several sources including cryptocurrency ventures that generated more than $1bn in proceeds and the appreciation of tokens retained by Trump, overseas licensing agreements that expanded the value of his branding business, and the removal of an almost $500m financial penalty in his New York civil fraud case.

特朗普还透露了2028年总统大选前共和党继任者之争的端倪,表示他可能会背书某位候选人,但尚未决定是否介入。当被问及是否预期会背书继任者时,特朗普回答:“很有可能。但不一定。”他形容共和党拥有强大的潜在候选人阵容,并赞扬了国务卿马尔科·鲁比奥,同时未排除其他竞争者。

Trump also offered a glimpse of the Republican succession battle ahead of the 2028 presidential election, saying he might endorse a candidate but had not decided whether to intervene. Asked whether he expected to endorse a successor, Trump replied: “Probably. Not necessarily.”He described the Republican party as having a strong field of potential candidates and praised secretary of state Marco Rubio while declining to rule out other contenders.

总统表示,他的背书将具有相当大的分量,但暗示他或许最好不介入这场竞争。他还对“让美国再次伟大”运动能在他不担任领袖的情况下存续表示信心,将其核心原则描述为强边境和强军队。

The president said his endorsement would carry considerable weight but suggested he might be better off staying out of the contest. He also expressed confidence that the “Make America great again” movement could survive without him as its leader, describing its defining principles as strong borders and a strong military.

在采访结束时,特朗普被问及他是否能在上帝的审判面前,原谅包括前联邦调查局局长詹姆斯·科米和前众议院议长南希·佩洛西在内的政治对手。特朗普说:“答案是不。我想诚实一点,不。”

At the end of the interview, Trump was asked whether he could forgive political opponents including former FBI director James Comey and former House speaker Nancy Pelosi, even before the judgment of God. Trump said: “The answer is no. I want to be honest, no.”

多哈特追问:“总统先生。您拥有我有生之年所见过的任何美国人中最幸运、最非凡的人生,您却告诉我,在上帝的审判宝座前,您无法在心中找到宽恕一些敌人的地方?毕竟您已得到那么多?拜托。帮帮我吧。”

Douthat followed up: “Mr President. You have had the most charmed and remarkable life of any American in my entire lifetime and you are telling me that before the judgment throne of God you couldn’t find it in your heart to forgive some of your enemies? After all that’s been given to you? Come on. Help me out here.”

但特朗普态度坚决,坚持说:“我大概做不到,不,因为我确实恨我的一些敌人,而且永远都会恨。”多哈特随后指出,许多总统都被一句概括性的话所铭记,例如“他解放了奴隶”或“他赢得了冷战”,并询问特朗普的总统任期将被怎样的一句话所铭记。总统简单地说:“那就是我让美国再次伟大。”

But Trump remained adamant, insisting: “I probably cannot do that, no, because I do hate some of my enemies and I always will.”Douthat then noted that many presidents are remembered with a single line such as “He freed the slaves” or “He won the cold war” and asked what line will Trump’s presidency be remembered with. The president said simply: “That I made America great again.”

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